A certain test in Trek XI - Spoilers - (I think...)

[Sharr Khan]

No I want it to have to do with the plot but moreover with who these people are. From what we have heard so far this does exactly that.

It shouldn't be a passing in the hallway moment.

How bout they get assigned as lab partners and have to dissect a tribble together? THAT'S exciting!

No its not... its mundane and tells us nothing about either man.

What's your idea then if you can come up with something better?

Sharr

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Arlo said:
Just to play devil's advocate; why does their actual meeting *need* to be exciting?

Because if it's not it needs to be cut in the second draft in favor of something that's memorable in and of itself.

 

[Plum]

mada101 said:

Plum said:
I don't get ya. The new Battlestar Galactica is a new universe unconnected with the original show. Starbuck's a girl. The new Star Trek movie, we have learned, dramatizes the story about Kirk's 'test' referred to in ST:TWoK, so it's the same universe.

So... no reboot. It's following canon. See?

Having an event appear from one canon in a re-working set in a second canon (which, I'm not saying the film will be, just that we can't be sure yet) does not automatically validate it as part of the first canon. Again, my other example: in both 'Battlestar Galactica' series, there is the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, the Cimtar Peace Accord, the Galactica meeting with the Pegaus, and so forth. Those are all events that connect both stories (or canons, if you will). Yet the two universes are not the same.

Huh, well, ya got me there. I suppose that might be so if unlikely.

 

[Arlo]

Sharr Khan said:
No I want it to have to do with the plot but moreover with who these people are. From what we have heard so far this does exactly that.

It shouldn't be a passing in the hallway moment.

How bout they get assigned as lab partners and have to dissect a tribble together? THAT'S exciting!

No its not... its mundane and tells us nothing about either man.

What's your idea then if you can come up with something better?

Sharr

I think your sarcast-o-meter needs new batteries.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Arlo said:

Sharr Khan said:
No I want it to have to do with the plot but moreover with who these people are. From what we have heard so far this does exactly that.

It shouldn't be a passing in the hallway moment.

How bout they get assigned as lab partners and have to dissect a tribble together? THAT'S exciting!

No its not... its mundane and tells us nothing about either man.

What's your idea then if you can come up with something better?

Sharr

I think your sarcast-o-meter needs new batteries.

That was sarcasm? Ok, admittedly I do miss that around here more often then not. Plus I kinda got caught up in the argument LOL!

Sharr

 

[Arlo]

I'm almost always sarcastic, particularly when it comes to slinging bull about a movie that none of us really has any clue what it will be like

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

scotthm said:Oh, you're wrong. There was quite a lively bunch at the event, and the party afterwards became legendary.

To respond to this as if it's serious, just for the sake of - you know, in a movie the only reason a party scene is worthwhile is if something happens in it that's not supposed to - that is, if something goes wrong.

That's not just drama - it's the basis of comedy as well.

One of the common uses for parties early in films is to introduce a cast of characters. There can be a lot of exposition. But if something doesn't go majorly askew the scene's dead.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Arlo said:Just to play devil's advocate; why does their actual meeting *need* to be exciting? Why can't it just be part of a larger tableau?

It doesn't need to be EXCITING. But it DOES need to be "interesting storytelling" or else it should NOT be on the screen at all.

We really don't need to see the scene where Kirk cuts his toenails, either...

If the scene is pertinent to the story... it should be there. If it's pertinent, it will inherently be INTERESTING. If the scene isn't pertinent, it's "fluff" and should be left out entirely.

 

[scotthm]

North Pole-aris said:
To respond to this as if it's serious, just for the sake of - you know, in a movie the only reason a party scene is worthwhile is if something happens in it that's not supposed to - that is, if something goes wrong.

A memorable party scene would be far preferable to watching Kirk cheat his way through a Kobayashi Maru test.

I'm perfectly willing to go into this film with an open mind and prepared to enjoy it. I'm just a little concerned that when our familiar characters meet for the first time it will seem too contrived.

I hope the plot jumps around in time a bit, because I don't know why else Chekov, Uhura, Sulu, Mr. Scott, or Dr. McCoy need be in a film where we supposedly see the first meeting between Kirk and Spock, unless that meeting takes place when Kirk assumes command of Enterprise.

---------------

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

scotthm said:A memorable party scene would be far preferable to watching Kirk cheat his way through a Kobayashi Maru test.

Only to someone who's completely pre-sold on "Star Trek" and who takes it seriously enough to have an opinion about Kirk's cheating on the "Kobyashi Maru" test.

If this movie were written to please that audience at the cost of people who actually need to see something interesting in order to enjoy the movie, it would without a doubt bomb.

 

[ancient]

The 'boring' first meeting:
They have a class together and are paired up for an assignment. Watch in amazement as these two strangers hand in an engineering paper! Worth $10 to see!

The 'funny' first meeting:
Kirk pranks Spock at random, sending him to a gay bar to deliver a 'unit'.
SPOCK:: "Does anyone here want my unit?"

The 'Dramatic Racism' first meeting:
Kirk calls Spock "Dumbo the flying green computer thing" and gets beaten up.

The 'absolutely no thought given to it' first meeting:
Spock and Kirk meet on the bridge when the Enterprise departs.

The 'highly implausable' first meeting:
Spock and Kirk are both assigned to KP and are forced to work together when the kitchen droids malfunction and attack the President!

The 'idiotic mistake' first meeting:
Kirk accidently goes into Spock's room!

The 'slashfic' first meeting:
Kirk intentionally goes into Spock's room!

The 'fanwank' first meeting:
Kirk and Spock are the sole survivors of the attack of the vampire cloud, which, as it turns out is also Kirk's real father. They battle through legions of Klingons and ... so forth.

 

[Vektor]

Good grief, people! The Kobayashi Maru test and the events surrounding it are not only a vehicle for introducing the characters of Kirk and Spock to each other but also for introducing them to us. You want to explain to audiences, new and old, what kind of person Kirk is in an interesting and entertaining way? A recounting of how he became the only Starfleet cadet to ever beat the no-win scenario is about as perfect as it gets in my book. Throw in Spock as the person who ratted him out for "cheating" and then, presumably, rose to his defense even when logic might dictate otherwise, and you have just established Trek's two most iconic characters in a way that would normally take an entire movie to accomplish.

It's fracking brilliant.

 

[aridas sofia]

North Pole-aris said:
The producers are hoping for a large audience of new or very casual fans for this film - they're not making it to placate the hard-core (Paramount wouldn't put up 25 cents right now to please us).

On the one hand, this is probably a good thing, given the fractured state of Trek fandom. They'd be hard pressed to put together a coherent plot if they were trying to please the fans alone.

And yet, to ignore what made these stories so successful to begin with -- e.g. what endeared them to those of us that were the original "Trekkies" -- would also seem foolish. Something in the original "clicked" in a way that nothing has since. So maybe paying attention to what us old folks liked is not such a bad thing.

 

[scotthm]

Vektor said:
Good grief, people! It's fracking brilliant.

I think CBS should digitally insert references to the Kobayashi Maru test in various episodes of the next iteration of TOS on home video: Star Trek Re-Remastered. Then we'd all have to go out and buy it again because, well, it's brilliant!

---------------

 

[Vektor]

scotthm said:
I think CBS should digitally insert references to the Kobayashi Maru test in various episodes of the next iteration of TOS on home video: Star Trek Re-Remastered. Then we'd all have to go out and buy it again because, well, it's brilliant!

---------------

Way to miss the point there, pal. Or ignore it. Whichever works better for you.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Arlo said:

OphaClyde said:


Awesome?

Oh, and this scene is also boring....

It's called sarcasm. Jesus, people need to lighten up around here.

I smiled. "Awesome." Heh. Why do I picture Ashton Kutcher as Kirk?

 

[Aragorn]

Naughty Boy said:
This must be the first time that I've ever heard someone complain that Bennett and Meyer's didn't make Trek militant enough.

You realize you're dealing with the ultimate Roddenberry fluffer, right?

 

[ancient]

Vektor said:
Good grief, people! The Kobayashi Maru test and the events surrounding it are not only a vehicle for introducing the characters of Kirk and Spock to each other but also for introducing them to us. You want to explain to audiences, new and old, what kind of person Kirk is in an interesting and entertaining way? A recounting of how he became the only Starfleet cadet to ever beat the no-win scenario is about as perfect as it gets in my book. Throw in Spock as the person who ratted him out for "cheating" and then, presumably, rose to his defense even when logic might dictate otherwise, and you have just established Trek's two most iconic characters in a way that would normally take an entire movie to accomplish.

It's fracking brilliant.

Exactly.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Vektor said:
Good grief, people! The Kobayashi Maru test and the events surrounding it are not only a vehicle for introducing the characters of Kirk and Spock to each other but also for introducing them to us. You want to explain to audiences, new and old, what kind of person Kirk is in an interesting and entertaining way? A recounting of how he became the only Starfleet cadet to ever beat the no-win scenario is about as perfect as it gets in my book. Throw in Spock as the person who ratted him out for "cheating" and then, presumably, rose to his defense even when logic might dictate otherwise, and you have just established Trek's two most iconic characters in a way that would normally take an entire movie to accomplish.

It's fracking brilliant.

Thank you. That sums up my feelings about this whole "debate".

Sharr

 

[Phoenicianknight]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!