All Seeing Eye
Admiral
If they'd blown up Earth I don't think I could possibly be held responsible for my actions following the film.
A certain destruction: necessary or gratuitous?
- Thread starter Darth_Pazuzu
- Start date
If they'd blown up Earth I don't think I could possibly be held responsible for my actions following the film.
It was like making a M.A.S.H. reboot that shows Korea being wiped off the map by nuclear weapons. It's pointless and makes no sense. It's like an X-files reboot that shows Scully die in the first five minutes. It's crap.
Star Trek doesn't revolve around Vulcan. It'd be like a reboot of The Office where one of the characters loses their desk in an accident.
You're seriously implying that Vulcan was not a major influence in the Federation?
Crazy
It wasn't a major influence on the show. The only time the Vulcans were dramatically important was in 1) Select episodes from each series 2) The Novels
They weren't living on Vulcan every day and absorbing Vulcan culture every second.
They weren't living on Vulcan every day and absorbing Vulcan culture every second.
Yes but who the Vulcans are is now fundamentally changed. That will impact more than just not seeing Vulcan on screen any more.
It's a different universe. The Prime Universe Vulcans are still the same. If you want Prime Vulcans, go watch some of the previous series or read one of the novels.
It's not like Nero went back in time to the 70s and nuked Paramount before all the spinoff material existed.
It's not like Nero went back in time to the 70s and nuked Paramount before all the spinoff material existed.
Only because Robau is there.
This is a Tradition in Star Trek moviemaking.."Do something to shake-up the fans"
Bennet Trek KILLED SPOCK, Destroyed the Enterprise, killed Kirk's Son and had the crew we all know and love become outlaws..(all solved by the time Star Trek IV ended)
Bergman Trek KILLED KIRK, Destroyed the Enterprise D, And blew up several planets that we really didn't care about.
So Abrams Trek BLEW UP VULCAN...
And the fans are shook up again..
It's been done folks..it's been done..
Bennet Trek KILLED SPOCK, Destroyed the Enterprise, killed Kirk's Son and had the crew we all know and love become outlaws..(all solved by the time Star Trek IV ended)
Bergman Trek KILLED KIRK, Destroyed the Enterprise D, And blew up several planets that we really didn't care about.
So Abrams Trek BLEW UP VULCAN...
And the fans are shook up again..
It's been done folks..it's been done..
I'm torn between, I don't like it for the fact that it's Vulcan, our first and most important ally. But it really brought out an emotional response, it's a powerful thing to think about, to keep telling yourself that Vulcan of all worlds is gone.
Personally i detested that they did that, and indeed found it gratuitous.
I keep hearing from some that it opens up so many story lines, but i don't it, i mean what stories does it open up exactly? one about "New Vulcan" being set up and how they are doing... and then what exactly that couldn't have been done with Original Vulcan for the most part?...
Blowing it up served nothing. Having a Vulcan there has far more story possibilities.
Besides, the destruction of Vulcan doesn't really allow for more freedom in story telling, Vulcan and Vulcans didn't exactly play a huge role in any of the 24th Century era shows anyways, and was rarely ever featured or covered much at all, so whether it was there or not wouldn't have affected the story telling too much i any way. Besides, the old stories are in the garbage now, they're starting from the beginning and targeting a whole new audience, people that haven't followed star trek before, any story they tell will be something new to these people, and they are free to tell any story they want however they want and have already made clear they don't mind making things different at all, so blowing it up didn't really serve much purpose at all.
Vulcan and Vulcans are distinctly Star Trek, and a distinctive property of Star Trek, particularly with TOS, not to mention a fan favorite. Star Trek without them just doesn't feel like Star Trek to me. Destroying it, if ever, should have at the very least served a much deeper purpose and been a far more dramatic event than was depicted, because let's be honest, does any one really expect them to explore much or swell on the repercussions of Vulcan's destruction? that wouldn't work for a "Summer Blockbuster" movie at all, just not enough time for that kind of thing in these movies. even if they wanted to, which i doubt.
Anyways, i loved the movie, it was fun and all, but the destruction of Vulcan and the Vulcans leaves me conflicted about it.
I keep hearing from some that it opens up so many story lines, but i don't it, i mean what stories does it open up exactly? one about "New Vulcan" being set up and how they are doing... and then what exactly that couldn't have been done with Original Vulcan for the most part?...
Blowing it up served nothing. Having a Vulcan there has far more story possibilities.
Besides, the destruction of Vulcan doesn't really allow for more freedom in story telling, Vulcan and Vulcans didn't exactly play a huge role in any of the 24th Century era shows anyways, and was rarely ever featured or covered much at all, so whether it was there or not wouldn't have affected the story telling too much i any way. Besides, the old stories are in the garbage now, they're starting from the beginning and targeting a whole new audience, people that haven't followed star trek before, any story they tell will be something new to these people, and they are free to tell any story they want however they want and have already made clear they don't mind making things different at all, so blowing it up didn't really serve much purpose at all.
Vulcan and Vulcans are distinctly Star Trek, and a distinctive property of Star Trek, particularly with TOS, not to mention a fan favorite. Star Trek without them just doesn't feel like Star Trek to me. Destroying it, if ever, should have at the very least served a much deeper purpose and been a far more dramatic event than was depicted, because let's be honest, does any one really expect them to explore much or swell on the repercussions of Vulcan's destruction? that wouldn't work for a "Summer Blockbuster" movie at all, just not enough time for that kind of thing in these movies. even if they wanted to, which i doubt.
Anyways, i loved the movie, it was fun and all, but the destruction of Vulcan and the Vulcans leaves me conflicted about it.
I have to pick the former rather than the latter given the two choices, but I'd also say neither. It was a dramatic device, but the moment wasn't given all of the emotional oomph that it could have had - I think partially because of fan denial and the feeling that there would be a reset button.
I mean, really, if they wanted to they could essentially do a reset button: settle the survivors on a new planet, call it Vulcan, and have them reproduce like rabbits until they were overpopulated and rebuild replicas of their ancient monuments. It's what Trek IV did with the Enterprise-A, after all. I'm hoping nuTrek won't do anything like this, though. Events must have consequences.
I mean, really, if they wanted to they could essentially do a reset button: settle the survivors on a new planet, call it Vulcan, and have them reproduce like rabbits until they were overpopulated and rebuild replicas of their ancient monuments. It's what Trek IV did with the Enterprise-A, after all. I'm hoping nuTrek won't do anything like this, though. Events must have consequences.
Then why are you complaining?
Vulcan 2 will repopulate as quickly as it can. That's a given, I think. I also think that they will seek to preserve their culture as much as possible. They might well draw into themselves as they rebuild/recover from this major trauma.
What will come out of all of this won't be the usual Vulcans, I don't think. They will change as a result of this. How, I'm not quite sure. But I don't think you can lose almost your entire race and stay just the same, whether you're logical beings or not. It will mark them.
Oh, I do totally agree that this is the reasonable (see how I avoided using "logical" there?) scenario. Drama definitely dictates that this will change them, "mark them" in some way. I'm just putting my faith in the writers to not drop the consequences ball as we've seen done before in "Trek."
The effects shot really wasn't anything too special. And if that's all they were going for, they could have blown up Tellarite World or some other Fed planet nobody cares about.
I think the main reason they did it was because it's difficult to show Spock's internal Emotion/Logic tension within a two hour film, so they needed to amplify his emotional side, or else he would have just come off as a robot. Plus they wanted to set up the Spock-Uhura-Kirk love triangle, and that would be impossible with the classic Spock character.
Re: The destruction of Vulcan: necessary or gratuitous?
Hear hear.
As usual, you're right.
At least Vulcan had a reason to be destroyed.
Ceti Alpha 6 has no excuse.
Hear hear.
As usual, you're right.
It was necessary to show that *anything* can happen in this time line. NOONE is safe - anyone could die in the next film.
Had they not done this, the majority of filmgoers would have walked out of the theater that this was a straight prequel - where they would not have to worry about characters safety.
But by destroying Vulcan everyone is aware of the new time line where everything is possible.
Had they not done this, the majority of filmgoers would have walked out of the theater that this was a straight prequel - where they would not have to worry about characters safety.
But by destroying Vulcan everyone is aware of the new time line where everything is possible.
Another reason Vulcan's destruction doesn't carry the weight is because for all intents and purposes it is a parallel Vulcan. Think if it was destroyed in a mirror universe episode of one of the series.
Then compare that to the reaction had our Vulcan been attacked or destroyed by the Dominion during the War. That would have left us reeeling. Here it is simply a spectacle to behold much like the destruction of the Borg planet in "Scorpion".
Then compare that to the reaction had our Vulcan been attacked or destroyed by the Dominion during the War. That would have left us reeeling. Here it is simply a spectacle to behold much like the destruction of the Borg planet in "Scorpion".
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