9X01 "The Magician's Apprentice" Grading/Discussion)
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Meh. The episode left me pretty cold. There were a number of cool elements (the war, the hand out of the ground, the weird snake person) but it didn't become a compelling whole.
That the Master/Missy and the Doctor go way back and used to be friends is an old hat, even on the new show (10 and his Master even spelled it out in dialogue).
And the dilemma isn't really one. For years, we were meant to root for the Doctor and see him as the good guy although we (and he) believed that he had wiped out bothe the Timelords and the Daleks. Also, while the 4th Doctor didn't kill Davros and the Daleks before they became a threat out of ethical concerns his successor - kindhearted Five of all people - regretted the decision.
That the Master/Missy and the Doctor go way back and used to be friends is an old hat, even on the new show (10 and his Master even spelled it out in dialogue).
And the dilemma isn't really one. For years, we were meant to root for the Doctor and see him as the good guy although we (and he) believed that he had wiped out bothe the Timelords and the Daleks. Also, while the 4th Doctor didn't kill Davros and the Daleks before they became a threat out of ethical concerns his successor - kindhearted Five of all people - regretted the decision.
Like much of the Moffat era, it was great fun and full of great moments, but there was just too much. There were about four good episodes in here but we're just breezing through concepts and twists so quickly they have no impact.
The bit about planes frozen in mid-air feels like an entire episode of the RTD era. We would have the Doctor stuck on a frozen plane, we would have met passengers and gotten to know them, we would have eventually found out who was behind it...
Somehow I managed to stay completely unspoiled on Davros being in the episode. The opening was a great Classic Who feeling opening and I was actually thinking of Genesis of the Daleks and thinking it was a nice retro feel. But when the little boy said he was Davros? I actually said "WOAH!" very loudly to myself
The snake guy is another concept that's cool but just doesn't work. Davros and the Daleks are all about racial purity and enslaving/wiping out all other races. So why would his most trusted lieutenant be a snake alien? And why is Davros suddenly Lord Voldemort? He's a dude in a wheelchair. But now he's Lord Davros and everyone is terrified of him personally and no the Daleks...
I also thought the Doctor's entrance with the guitar and the tank was just ridiculous and went on waaaaaaaay too long.
The bit about planes frozen in mid-air feels like an entire episode of the RTD era. We would have the Doctor stuck on a frozen plane, we would have met passengers and gotten to know them, we would have eventually found out who was behind it...
Somehow I managed to stay completely unspoiled on Davros being in the episode. The opening was a great Classic Who feeling opening and I was actually thinking of Genesis of the Daleks and thinking it was a nice retro feel. But when the little boy said he was Davros? I actually said "WOAH!" very loudly to myself
The snake guy is another concept that's cool but just doesn't work. Davros and the Daleks are all about racial purity and enslaving/wiping out all other races. So why would his most trusted lieutenant be a snake alien? And why is Davros suddenly Lord Voldemort? He's a dude in a wheelchair. But now he's Lord Davros and everyone is terrified of him personally and no the Daleks...
I also thought the Doctor's entrance with the guitar and the tank was just ridiculous and went on waaaaaaaay too long.
Pretty good episode, at least it's entertaining and kept my attention despite being loaded with Moffat tropes, most notably the Doctor once again facing his impending death and children playing integral role in this. And let's be honest right now, Clara and Missy aren't dead, and the TARDIS isn't destroyed.
I was really digging Missy in this episode, she's both amusing and you get the truest sense that her and the Doctor go way back. This might well be the closest they've come yet to having a Doctor/Master relationship on par with Pertwee and Delgado. Really looking forward to seeing how things develop here.
Though, was it really necessary to have Snakeman going around the Whoniverse? Sure, it's nice to catch to see a bar of various Who aliens and the Shadow Proclamation, and the Sisterhood of Karn, but they served no real point to the story other than "oh hey, continuity." Hell, even Kate Stewart and UNIT are just glorified cameos.
I did love the medieval rock concert on top of a tank. Seriously, that's one of those ideas that simply summarises how wacky, fun and imaginative Doctor Who can be at its best.
I was quite impressed with the make-up job done with Davros this time around. He looked really authentic and realistic, moreso than in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End.
Back when we had rumours of the Doctor dealing with a child Davros I had a bad feeling of how this would turn out, since we know the Doctor will never kill a child, even if he is Davros, you had the monologue from Genesis of the Daleks with him even indicating he wouldn't kill a child he knew would grow up to be an evil dictator. So they are acknowledging that and the story seems to be something a bit more than kill Davros when he's young. But now we get the implication that it's this traumatic encounter with the Doctor that turns Davros into a psychopath. So in essence, the Doctor influenced the creation of the Daleks? Kind of small world there.
So some random thoughts:
-The soldiers that try to help Davros in the opening scene were wearing brown uniforms. Are they meant to be Thals, perhaps?
-We see plenty of Ood at Dorium's bar. Since they don't seem to be in positions of servitude, I guess this is meant to be after Planet of the Ood and the Ood have earned their freedom. Still, hanging out at a bar seems rather out of character for the Ood.
-What other species do we see there? I thought I spotted some Sycorax and Hoix as well.
-The Judoon we see at the Shadow Proclamation is wearing his helmet. Simpler than adding the face prosthetic, or is the face no longer usable? It has been four years since it was last used, after all.
-I found it funny they referred to Snakeman's FTL drive as "hyperspace" yet the effect resembled warp drive from TNG-ENT era Star Trek.
I was really digging Missy in this episode, she's both amusing and you get the truest sense that her and the Doctor go way back. This might well be the closest they've come yet to having a Doctor/Master relationship on par with Pertwee and Delgado. Really looking forward to seeing how things develop here.
Though, was it really necessary to have Snakeman going around the Whoniverse? Sure, it's nice to catch to see a bar of various Who aliens and the Shadow Proclamation, and the Sisterhood of Karn, but they served no real point to the story other than "oh hey, continuity." Hell, even Kate Stewart and UNIT are just glorified cameos.
I did love the medieval rock concert on top of a tank. Seriously, that's one of those ideas that simply summarises how wacky, fun and imaginative Doctor Who can be at its best.
I was quite impressed with the make-up job done with Davros this time around. He looked really authentic and realistic, moreso than in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End.
Back when we had rumours of the Doctor dealing with a child Davros I had a bad feeling of how this would turn out, since we know the Doctor will never kill a child, even if he is Davros, you had the monologue from Genesis of the Daleks with him even indicating he wouldn't kill a child he knew would grow up to be an evil dictator. So they are acknowledging that and the story seems to be something a bit more than kill Davros when he's young. But now we get the implication that it's this traumatic encounter with the Doctor that turns Davros into a psychopath. So in essence, the Doctor influenced the creation of the Daleks? Kind of small world there.
So some random thoughts:
-The soldiers that try to help Davros in the opening scene were wearing brown uniforms. Are they meant to be Thals, perhaps?
-We see plenty of Ood at Dorium's bar. Since they don't seem to be in positions of servitude, I guess this is meant to be after Planet of the Ood and the Ood have earned their freedom. Still, hanging out at a bar seems rather out of character for the Ood.
-What other species do we see there? I thought I spotted some Sycorax and Hoix as well.
-The Judoon we see at the Shadow Proclamation is wearing his helmet. Simpler than adding the face prosthetic, or is the face no longer usable? It has been four years since it was last used, after all.
-I found it funny they referred to Snakeman's FTL drive as "hyperspace" yet the effect resembled warp drive from TNG-ENT era Star Trek.
Yep. And that little thing that BBC America played that had Jenna saying "We were at dinner with Steven and he told us about the scene," or whatever...I instantly could visualize that. And I rolled my eyes.
The entire first half of the episode had weird pacing issues, and that scene didn't help at all. And it was weird. But Moffat probably thought it was the best thing ever, rubbing his hands together with glee as he narrated it to Jenna and Peter.
At least Peter got to have fun with a guitar? That's the only purpose I can think of for that odd intro.
So you're suggesting that Missy is is behind Satellite 5?
To olden day Daleks the TARDIS is indestructible.
To post Time War Daleks, it's a wooden box.
There's a bit in Audio recently, where they say that the Daleks turn their blasters down to the lowest possible disintegration settings so that their target is still alive, watching (and feeling) at least the first half of their body disintegrate before they pass out from shock and "noncoporialness".
"I passed out from the pain because too much of my body was missing".
This is Dalek humour.
I think they're hilarious.
Besides.
We found out last year that Daleks need protein to survive.
(It's a bit like a fly vomiting acid on a spider, and then sucking up the meat it's just turned into fluid.)
But after they blast persons into aerosolized flesh, or people flavoured goop... How do they get all that gruel up inside the Dalek's chassis?
1. Eyestalk tractor beam?
2. Plunger electrostatic collector?
3. Several wet/dry vacs mounted into the Daleks under carriage, which means that they eat with their ass.
4. Alternating a disintegration beam with a transmat beam? Possibly miniaturization could be involved?
5. Can't do this with individuals. A mass grave needs to be filled with people and juiced. The Dalek then goes for a swim/soak in a vat of mostly cancer and sucks muscel and fat through its radiator gills round it's "neck". If they eat what they kill, even proportionately very few of who they kill do they actually need to eat... Dalek weapons would have to make Human flesh more conducive to consumption and not less. Radiation weapons make cancer. Unless tumours are delicious, the Daleks may have to kill with less efficiency than practicality, if they don't want to eat poison.
6. We saw that Dalek bumps are mobile drones determined for an unknown purpose. What if they are meat tenderizers? 40 hovering dalekanium balls pounding and pounding some dude until he is slurpable paste. Which side steps any issues with carcinogens.
7. A person sheds on average 1.5 pounds of flesh a year, also everything else made of meat is shedding skin as well. the air we breath is 2 percent meat. Beathing is not only cannibalism, but most likely auto-canabalism most of the time if you spend long periods in the same room. So like a bussard ramscoop collecting hydrogen, Daleks are probably ramscopping skin flakes constantly without having to kill anyone.
Anyone else hungry?
To olden day Daleks the TARDIS is indestructible.
To post Time War Daleks, it's a wooden box.
There's a bit in Audio recently, where they say that the Daleks turn their blasters down to the lowest possible disintegration settings so that their target is still alive, watching (and feeling) at least the first half of their body disintegrate before they pass out from shock and "noncoporialness".
"I passed out from the pain because too much of my body was missing".
This is Dalek humour.
I think they're hilarious.
Besides.
We found out last year that Daleks need protein to survive.
(It's a bit like a fly vomiting acid on a spider, and then sucking up the meat it's just turned into fluid.)
But after they blast persons into aerosolized flesh, or people flavoured goop... How do they get all that gruel up inside the Dalek's chassis?
1. Eyestalk tractor beam?
2. Plunger electrostatic collector?
3. Several wet/dry vacs mounted into the Daleks under carriage, which means that they eat with their ass.
4. Alternating a disintegration beam with a transmat beam? Possibly miniaturization could be involved?
5. Can't do this with individuals. A mass grave needs to be filled with people and juiced. The Dalek then goes for a swim/soak in a vat of mostly cancer and sucks muscel and fat through its radiator gills round it's "neck". If they eat what they kill, even proportionately very few of who they kill do they actually need to eat... Dalek weapons would have to make Human flesh more conducive to consumption and not less. Radiation weapons make cancer. Unless tumours are delicious, the Daleks may have to kill with less efficiency than practicality, if they don't want to eat poison.
6. We saw that Dalek bumps are mobile drones determined for an unknown purpose. What if they are meat tenderizers? 40 hovering dalekanium balls pounding and pounding some dude until he is slurpable paste. Which side steps any issues with carcinogens.
7. A person sheds on average 1.5 pounds of flesh a year, also everything else made of meat is shedding skin as well. the air we breath is 2 percent meat. Beathing is not only cannibalism, but most likely auto-canabalism most of the time if you spend long periods in the same room. So like a bussard ramscoop collecting hydrogen, Daleks are probably ramscopping skin flakes constantly without having to kill anyone.
Anyone else hungry?
I think Peter Capaldi should stick with the dry humor instead of trying to be funny. Davros reminds me of Dr. Finklestein from The Nightmare Before Christmas.
So...Reset Button next week?
I was spoiled about the Davros thing since April because of the internet sites. BAH!
I thought the opening sequence on Skaro was excellent and the hand mines was creepy. Really, really liked that.
Enjoyed seeing alien races like the Ood, the Judoon and the Sisterhood of Karn pop up.
The snake monster was cool.
Suspending the planes in midair was Classic Who and Missy is a nasty piece of work.
The Doctor and the guitar was self-indulgent. Basically the show (or in this cast Moffat) wanting the Doctor to be wacky for the sake of being wacky. Stop trying so damn hard to force a moment. Around this time, the episode became set-up.
Bleach was terrific as Davros and was used well. Nice seeing the Classic Who clips. I would recommend Genesis of the Daleks to anybody.
I agree things went off the rails when we got to Skaro. Not sure what to expect next week.
I was spoiled about the Davros thing since April because of the internet sites. BAH!
I thought the opening sequence on Skaro was excellent and the hand mines was creepy. Really, really liked that.
Enjoyed seeing alien races like the Ood, the Judoon and the Sisterhood of Karn pop up.
The snake monster was cool.
Suspending the planes in midair was Classic Who and Missy is a nasty piece of work.
The Doctor and the guitar was self-indulgent. Basically the show (or in this cast Moffat) wanting the Doctor to be wacky for the sake of being wacky. Stop trying so damn hard to force a moment. Around this time, the episode became set-up.
Bleach was terrific as Davros and was used well. Nice seeing the Classic Who clips. I would recommend Genesis of the Daleks to anybody.
I agree things went off the rails when we got to Skaro. Not sure what to expect next week.
The Doctor kills young Davros, everything gets worse, so he goes back to stop himself from killing young Davros and save the little bugger. He tries to raise Davros right, but fucks up, Davros learns the wrong lesson, becomes the monster we remember but then has his memory wiped, and doesn't remember being the magicians apprentice until a few hours before his death.
Paint by numbers.
Is Tom going to be in it soon?
I can see Capaldi Back to the Future IIing through Genesis, brushing up against the back of Sarah Jane's yellow rain coat.
The time differential will age Tom up, just like it did to Pete in Time Crash.
But Tom's trying to deicide if he should firebomb the Dalek nursery, and then Capaldi launches up from behind him screaming "Doooo IT! Jahst Dooo IT yew namby pamby boofy harrred soft twat!"
Paint by numbers.
Is Tom going to be in it soon?
I can see Capaldi Back to the Future IIing through Genesis, brushing up against the back of Sarah Jane's yellow rain coat.
The time differential will age Tom up, just like it did to Pete in Time Crash.
But Tom's trying to deicide if he should firebomb the Dalek nursery, and then Capaldi launches up from behind him screaming "Doooo IT! Jahst Dooo IT yew namby pamby boofy harrred soft twat!"
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So apparently Davros is now the Dark Lord Voldermort and has a big snake as a minion. So The Doctor is Harry Potter? 
So apparently Davros is now the Dark Lord Voldermort and has a big snake as a minion. So The Doctor is Harry Potter?
Harry's looking a little worn out these days. The snake totally reminded me of Nagini!
I... was not a fan. The plot made no sense - there's no day the Doctor or Davros dies when they have time travel. And I know they're different incarnations, but the Doctor trying to murder Davros didn't feel at all consistent with his actions "Genesis of the Daleks" or "Journey's End".
Moffat is definitely looking tired to me.
Moffat is definitely looking tired to me.
The Daleks/Davros have made use of slaves/servants lots of times throughout their history. All disposable of course. The snake man could just as easily been something Davros engineered in his lab.
Apparently Davros has developed a bit of a reputation for himself over the centuries. Who knows how much power he amassed during the time war?
Just fyi, its not a snake man. Its a colony of snakes that can work collectively to look like a man.
He was a prisoner the last time we saw him it's likely he's still a prisoner, otherwise he'd probably have sent a Dalek to collect the Doctor.
I enjoyed this episode; I like this Missy much better. The strange and weird balance she and the Doctor have is much more interesting and believable.
Yes, I am assuming that the Doctor will Back to the Future this whole thing, which will be a bit of a letdown, but this set-up has been so intriguing (even with the over-the-top silliness) that I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Yes, I am assuming that the Doctor will Back to the Future this whole thing, which will be a bit of a letdown, but this set-up has been so intriguing (even with the over-the-top silliness) that I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Nice continuity reference to Classic Who by mentioning there are at least 3 of Atlantis.
The war with the Thals is described as a war of attrition in reverse and that was brilliantly realized in the opening scene.
Anyone notice Missing tickling a ball on one of the Daleks?
The war with the Thals is described as a war of attrition in reverse and that was brilliantly realized in the opening scene.
Anyone notice Missing tickling a ball on one of the Daleks?
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Here's my theory.
There's a poem called "The Sorcerer's Apprentice", which was famously adapted into a Mickey Mouse cartoon that appears in the Walt Disney movie Fantasia. The story told in the poem from the Wikipedia article:
So, my theory is that this relates to what Davros said about giving the Daleks life, but being unable to control them. Davros is metaphorically the Sorcerer's Apprentice, and the Daleks are the enchanted brooms which are out of control.The Sorcerer's Apprentice said:
As to why it wasn't called "The Sorcerer's Apprentice," assuming I'm right, I dunno. Rights issues perhaps? The Magician's Apprentice is a book by Trudi Canavan, but maybe that wasn't an issue?!? I really dunno.
I enjoyed the medieval armored tank and electric guitar party a lot. One thing I thought about while watching it was imagining what it would be like to be a person from the Middle Ages looking at an armored tank and listening to an electric guitar. That was fun in and of itself.
Also, the armored tank at the party foreshadows the dialog that follows about Daleks being placed inside tanks.
Missy was deliciously evil, the way she picked off UNIT agents like squashing ants.
I'm going with Eyebrows! It gave me stuff worth thinking about, which is what I want in my entertainment.
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