8x10 In the Forest of the Night (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!

[The Mirrorball Man]

We've just had a whole season focusing almost exclusively on the Doctor, and people kept complaining that the Companion - Clara - wasn't developed enough. Now we're back to a more traditional arrangement, with the focus being shared on the two main characters, and people - the same people - are complaining again.

 

[Pindar]

I enjoyed it mostly, my main complaint was with the last scene and the creepy sister in the bushes.

The actress looked very awkward and the magical reappearance bugged me.

I needed to know the circumstances under how she went missing to get any resonance to her homecoming, Maeve wishing her home annoyed me.

 

[Mr Light]

I still don't understand the deal with the sisters. Why did the older sister disappear and why did she come back and why did Mab Arden have magic powers and what effect if any did she have on the trees?

 

[The Wormhole]

The writers definitely haven't done a good job of making Danny likeable.

It isn't so much that Danny's unlikable, he's just so remarkably bland, and 90% of the time he's not needed. Seriously, of the eight episodes he's been in so far, he only needed to be in four, and even then him a Clara have no real relationship anyway. They're drawn together presumably by mutual attraction, but that's it. There's nothing between them other than attraction, and that doesn't even seem to be enough for Clara given she routinely lies to him and even ignores his calls. At this point, there is no real reason why one of them hasn't broken off the relationship.

 

[Slugboy]

I still don't understand the deal with the sisters. Why did the older sister disappear and why did she come back and why did Mab Arden have magic powers and what effect if any did she have on the trees?

Judging by the sister's raggedy appearance, I would guess that she ran away from home. I'm not sure about British culture, but in North America, teenage girls sometimes run away to be with a boyfriend (who sometimes turns out to be a violent pimp), or out of a desire to do illegal drugs, or because of a poor home life (based on the first telephone conversation of Maebh's mother, it sounds like she is talking to her ex-husband because she says 'you were supposed to pick her up'---perhaps there was a messy divorce). The girls sometimes end up homeless on the streets, too ashamed or scared to come home.

Maebh appeared to have two abilities: first, the ability to sense those weird glowing things (which is why she always bats at the air around her head), and the ability to sense other people's thoughts in general (for example, Clara's desire to get the Doctor, which should be disturbing to Danny because she must have thought it while she was sleeping, before she even knew about the forest) as well as the thoughts of the glowing things (which is how she knew about the solar flare).

 

[Mr Awe]

The writers definitely haven't done a good job of making Danny likeable.

It isn't so much that Danny's unlikable, he's just so remarkably bland, and 90% of the time he's not needed. Seriously, of the eight episodes he's been in so far, he only needed to be in four, and even then him a Clara have no real relationship anyway. They're drawn together presumably by mutual attraction, but that's it. There's nothing between them other than attraction, and that doesn't even seem to be enough for Clara given she routinely lies to him and even ignores his calls. At this point, there is no real reason why one of them hasn't broken off the relationship.

I'm one who didn't like the returning to Earth between adventures before. So, I don't like another anchor that drags us back to Earth consistently. For me, that's not what the show is about. And, Danny's speech to Clara at the end really made me not like him whereas I could tolerate him before.

Danny could be an interesting character . . . on another show.

Mr Awe

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I still don't understand the deal with the sisters. Why did the older sister disappear and why did she come back and why did Mab Arden have magic powers and what effect if any did she have on the trees?

I keep wondering if anything in the episode happened in reality, if any of the characters (including Clara but excluding the Doctor) were even real. There are so many problems with the episode's reality that a giant holodeck simulation seems to be the solution.

Why was London so depopulated? I find it difficult to believe that absolutely no one was wandering around exploring the forest. For that matter, London is a major metropolis, and it never sleeps. There would've been people on the streets doing stuff and going about their lives as the trees appeared overnight. Some people would have witnessed the arrival of the instragrowth trees. Some people would have been surprised to wake up to the trees, while others would've been woken up by their neighbors going batshit insane because they saw it happen.

What about the cars and infrastructure? Where did it magically go? Buildings still existed, as we saw, but the trees seemed to fill up the streets. What happened to the cars that were on the streets? What happened to the cars that were in motion on London's streets when the trees appeared? Were there absolutely no car accidents from the instant trees?

The oceans! Somehow, trees grew on the oceans. How?

More importantly, what were the trees attached to? Did they actually have root systems (which would have destroyed sidewalks and paved roads), or were they like creeping vines that grew on top of the surface?

By the point the girl appeared in the magical bush, I had been so utterly beaten by the episode that I didn't care any more.

"In the Forest of the Night" is offensively stupid.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I have read comments here and elsewhere. This episode has roiled up some of the viewers, including myself, yet I am sure the appreciation figures will be in the 80s. I would like the show to be centered on the Doctor; however, I think that ship has already sailed.

Don't know about appreciation figures, but it is presently fourth to last in IMDB after Fear Her, Love & Monsters and Lazarus. For me that's odd, because I enjoyed much for it to get that low a rating (I blame people hating on forests), but the public opinion on this one doesn't seem to be headed in a direction of approval. And there was plenty to justify that.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Speaking of the unreality of this episode, according to Tardis Wikia, one of the buses has an advert for the current season of Doctor Who.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Don't know about appreciation figures, but it is presently fourth to last in IMDB after Fear Her, Love & Monsters and Lazarus. For me that's odd, because I enjoyed much for it to get that low a rating (I blame people hating on forests), but the public opinion on this one doesn't seem to be headed in a direction of approval. And there was plenty to justify that.

"In the Forest of the Night" had an AI figure of 83.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Speaking of the unreality of this episode, according to Tardis Wikia, one of the buses has an advert for the current season of Doctor Who.

What's especially odd is that the Doctor Who poster is a fan-made poster, not official BBC artwork. Clearly, it's not an accident.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I may change my rating after I see it again in a few months, but I gave it an 'eyebrows.' Even though the alien plan and solution to stop the aliens were a bit iffy, I think The Doctor, Danny Pink, Clara, and the kids held it together pretty well. I also enjoy how the kids seem to be just as clever in their own way.

 

[Richard Baker]

I mostly enjoyed the episode- until I read this thread. There are a lot of problems brought up here that I just did not think about too much when I was watching but now bother me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Reading others' reactions, like Paul Cornell's and Phil Sandifer's, makes me wonder two things.

First, are we even watching the same series?

And second, if we are watching the same series, could commercial breaks be the problem?

If the episode relies on mood rather than narrative, then breaking up the episode to allow for BBC America's commercial breaks (and speeding it up so it ends up looking like it's on video) would spoil the mood and give me, the viewer, time to ponder the narrative and the episode's reality as it's unfolding.

 

[davejames]

I think it probably just comes down to the kinds of DW stories different people like. Some (like myself) really enjoy the more fairytale, storybook style of episodes like these, which rely a bit more on mood and aren't quite as plot-heavy, and others just find those that kind of thing annoying as hell.

Although I do think some episodes can be hurt a bit more by all the distracting commercial breaks, which is why I always prefer to watch the original BBC versions of the episodes instead.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

From listening to the commentaries, I have come to learn that Doctor Who stories need the right amount of time for the unfolding of a story. It's the Goldilocks Effect.

* Stories longer than four episodes (1 episode=approximately 22 minutes) are problematic - the writers are struggling to fill the episodes with something
* Stories with four episodes is the right balance
* Stories shorter than four episodes are rushed. There isn't the time for world building or for developing character interactions.

It wouldn't matter if there were commercial breaks. The issue is that the writers have a limited amount of time to write a story, so things that might have been addressed in the earlier serials are being skipped over. Imagine if this latest episode had the right length. There might have been a scene where the disappearance of Annabel, Maedbe's sister, would have been discussed. As it is, she is a mystery. I am thinking of a Christmas special where a wife had a husband who was a bomber pilot who disappeared with his crew and plane, and, when she returned, she was reunited with her husband. I know what was happening to the plane before it's disappearance.

 

[Mr Awe]

Reading others' reactions, like Paul Cornell's and Phil Sandifer's, makes me wonder two things.

First, are we even watching the same series?

All I can say is that they're working *really* hard trying to make it sound like a "transcendent" episode. Perhaps they have some sort of vested interest? I don't know. But even if I could like this type of story, there's no way it could be so downright amazing as they seem to think it is. It was a lame story, that didn't make sense, and the Doctor did nothing. Let's burn the kids! I actually tolerated Danny before this but now I think he's a twerp.

Or, maybe they have a high tolerance for dumbness? I don't know. This episode just really bothered me (like To Kill the Moon) so I'm sure I'm not unbiased while reading their reviews.

And, no, it's not the commercial breaks. I skip those and it still sucked.

Mr Awe

 

[DimesDan]

From listening to the commentaries, I have come to learn that Doctor Who stories need the right amount of time for the unfolding of a story. It's the Goldilocks Effect.

* Stories longer than four episodes (1 episode=approximately 22 minutes) are problematic - the writers are struggling to fill the episodes with something
* Stories with four episodes is the right balance
* Stories shorter than four episodes are rushed. There isn't the time for world building or for developing character interactions.

It wouldn't matter if there were commercial breaks. The issue is that the writers have a limited amount of time to write a story, so things that might have been addressed in the earlier serials are being skipped over. Imagine if this latest episode had the right length. There might have been a scene where the disappearance of Annabel, Maedbe's sister, would have been discussed. As it is, she is a mystery. I am thinking of a Christmas special where a wife had a husband who was a bomber pilot who disappeared with his crew and plane, and, when she returned, she was reunited with her husband. I know what was happening to the plane before it's disappearance.

Just for the record, there are no commercial breaks on the BBC and as long as it's paid for by the License Fee, there never will be a commercial break on the BBC.

 

[Mr Awe]

From listening to the commentaries, I have come to learn that Doctor Who stories need the right amount of time for the unfolding of a story. It's the Goldilocks Effect.

* Stories longer than four episodes (1 episode=approximately 22 minutes) are problematic - the writers are struggling to fill the episodes with something

Genesis of the Daleks, Invasion, War Games, Dalek Invasion of the Earth, The Seeds of Doom, and Inferno would all suggest that longer stories can work very well!

* Stories with four episodes is the right balance

Not all 4 parters are great. Although I agree it often works out nice.

* Stories shorter than four episodes are rushed. There isn't the time for world building or for developing character interactions.

Not necessarily. Black Orchid, The Rescue, and The Edge of Destruction were all nicely paced 2 parters.

You shouldn't generalize so much when it comes down to story length. It depends on effective writing for a given length. It can be done.

Mr Awe

 

[davejames]

I really liked the episode, but "transcendent" is definitely a bit much.