7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

We are also nearing the end of River's life and I have to watch it again, to make sure if the Doctor realized it when she mentioned her pardon and that she is a Professor now.

Think she will get a farewell episode as well?

And I realize there is some clip where this is dealt with, but at this point it would be nice to get a "the last time they have an adventure together" episode. Just not so soon after the Pond's departure of course.

That said, I have yet to see their final date which is available on the DVD somewhere? Is that right?

 

[Pindar]

The baby angels were awesome, much creepier than the adult ones.

I think the season opener was the strongest this season, but I like that they tried something different showing how getting caught up with the Doctor screws your life up.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

So the paradox plays out, and we are back in the present, where Rory is again zapped back into the past, can the Angels feed on his life energy twice? Rory would not have had any energy to feed off, or was the first time paradoxed out of time, despite us seeing the grave at the start of the episode.

It's probably the same gravestone, but different circumstances of death. Think Back to the Future III where also just the inscription changed.

I also wondered if Angels can feed of a person twice and and thought that was the reason Rory was just displaced in space and not in time when the babies got him but apparently that is not the case.

That said, he is a time traveler AND "lived" out 2000 years before. He is probably juiced up with enoough time energy to give River and teh Doctor a run for their money.... well, maybe not the Doctor.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

So... Just a thought... is it possible that Amy and Rory went back in time just to find little girl Melody wandering the streets of New York, adopted her and raised her as their own (which she is)?

 

[I am not Spock]

'The girl who waited'. Awesome!

Excellent episode. The best of this season so far. 'Asylum' and this one have been my faves so far.

I will miss Amy and Rory (especially the gorgeous Amy ), they were great companions, and had great chemistry with Matt. But it was a fitting end. They stayed together, they were happy. Technically, they died, but they weren't 'killed off'. They spent a lifetime together. As soon as I knew the Angels would be involved in their departure, I figured they'd be sent back in time somewhere.

The cherub angels were scary as hell, as was the statue of Liberty one.

The only thing I would have liked to see more of was interaction between River and her parents. I assume this is the last we'll see of River as well. Or maybe not

Top class episode. I'm sad to see Amy and Rory go, but this was a much better sequel to 'Blink' than the season 5 two parter.

 

[Dac]

I'm sorry, but I called every single point of this episode the second it was first announced, called the Statue of Liberty thing last week AND the emotional climax was ripped straight from Blink down to the dialogue. I mean seriously, it was a carbon copy of Blink.

Weak, weak stuff.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Also just realised on rewatch that a) River's wrist didn't have to get broken- all they *knew* from the book was that those two lines would be said, and b) fixed point my arse, the Doctor didn't break it anyway, she did it herself... All manner of outs!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

What I don't get is why did River write the book that way? Is she compelled to disclose the full and complete facts?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I'm sorry, but I called every single point of this episode the second it was first announced, called the Statue of Liberty thing last week AND the emotional climax was ripped straight from Blink down to the dialogue. I mean seriously, it was a carbon copy of Blink.

Weak, weak stuff.

If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it. But what does that have to do with your ability to call plot points in advance? I don't get it. It is fairly easy to write a totally unpredictable story, but do we really want that?

 

[Lonemagpie]

The scary thing is that if I'd written it, I'd have cut to the credits from the gravestone...

Lesley had tears. I think probably because of Rory's "don't I always" - which so far has also applied (twice!) to me...

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

I went in with a stiff upper-lip knowing that something bad was probably going to happen to the Ponds -- and also knowing that I've grown quite attached to them.

"The Afterword" made me cry a tiny bit. Shoot. It still got me.

 

[Holdfast]

Average; continues a trend from the prior episode of mixing stuff I really like with stuff I really don't.

Liked:
- Baby Angels, Statue of Liberty, seeing the Angels back generally (they're easily the best new Who villain)
- The pre-title sequence
- The scenes with River meeting the rich collector, revealing the Angel in chains, her texting the Doctor and the Doctor joining her and the wrist-breaking bit.
- the kickass massively-bellied lapels on the collector's double-breasted suit.
- Finally, no more Amy! (minor bonus side-effect, no more Rory)

Disliked:
- rushed story, which made it difficult to follow exactly what was going on at times. Like last week's ep, this would have been better either as a 2-parter (hell, I think the core concept was strong enough to be stretched into a classic Who style 4 or 6 parter).
- the last few minutes with the Doctor reading Amy's letter from the past reminded me too much of Marty reading the Doc's letter in BTTF II to view on its own merits. Even with my knowing this wasn't a 2-parter, I still half-expected that when the Doctor revisted young Amy, he'd say, "I'm back, back from the future!" and enlist her aid in saving older Amy's life somehow, followed by a big "To Be Contined"...

As an aside, I think my biggest issue with modern Who (esp. Smith era) is that I'm not a fan of companions being the centre of stories and the Doctor acting so overly emotional around them. I prefer them as supporting cast in a majority of episodes.

I'm very much looking forward to Oswald as a companion though; even if she becomes a central character in the way companions do these days, I think she's going to have some good banter with the Doctor and hold her on in an intelligent/witty way with him, similar to how River does and the personified TARDIS did in that episode from last year. Asylum was the best episode of this season by a mile and she was the best thing in Asylum, so I'm looking forward to seeing how she does as a full companion.

 

[wamdue]

So the paradox plays out, and we are back in the present, where Rory is again zapped back into the past, can the Angels feed on his life energy twice? Rory would not have had any energy to feed off, or was the first time paradoxed out of time, despite us seeing the grave at the start of the episode.

It's probably the same gravestone, but different circumstances of death. Think Back to the Future III where also just the inscription changed.

I also wondered if Angels can feed of a person twice and and thought that was the reason Rory was just displaced in space and not in time when the babies got him but apparently that is not the case.

yes that crossed my mind as well.

What happened with Rory did not seem to add up for me.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Poor Martha, the one nuCompanion he could visit and he doesn't even bother to write.

 

[Count Zero]

Did I miss an important step in the evolution of the Angels? Weren't they always made out of stone? Because the Statue of Liberty is made out of bronze... I also think it would be missed if it was about in the city chasing people and it would be noticed if a giant statue roamed Manhattan.

It was kind of funny, though.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Did I miss an important step in the evolution of the Angels? Weren't they always made out of stone? Because the Statue of Liberty is made out of bronze... I also think it would be missed if it was about in the city chasing people and it would be noticed if a giant statues roamed Manhattan.

It was kind of funny, though.

Yeah, I was about to say, I can't imagine a time when at least ONE person wasn't looking at the Statue of Liberty.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Maybe the locals ignore the famous kitschy replica put in place by the owners of Winter Quay.

 

[Ghost Bones]

The Angels Take the Piss

So there's a building in New York full of Weeping Angels but if you make a paradox (if that's what it even as) in it it magically resolves everything except one in a graveyard. Also, the Statue of Liberty is one which is never addressed and appears by the building somehow. Meanwhile, River says "fetish" just in case you thought about letting your kids watch. She may as well go around saying "oral anal masturbation" like she's got Tourettes.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The Angels Take the Piss

So there's a building in New York full of Weeping Angels but if you make a paradox (if that's what it even as) in it it magically resolves everything except one in a graveyard. Also, the Statue of Liberty is one which is never addressed and appears by the building somehow. Meanwhile, River says "fetish" just in case you thought about letting your kids watch. She may as well go around saying "oral anal masturbation" like she's got Tourettes.

I do declare, Kids are such fragile creatures nowadays!

 

[Dac]

I'm sorry, but I called every single point of this episode the second it was first announced, called the Statue of Liberty thing last week AND the emotional climax was ripped straight from Blink down to the dialogue. I mean seriously, it was a carbon copy of Blink.

Weak, weak stuff.

If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it. But what does that have to do with your ability to call plot points in advance? I don't get it. It is fairly easy to write a totally unpredictable story, but do we really want that?

I am not a writer. If my dumb brain can come up with the exact same situation from the exact same parameters then I'm disappointed. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship kept me in suspense at least, even if there was nothing really being said or done for a purpose. Lifting the exact same premise from Blink (Sally Sparrow's friend) for the big event episode is kind of weak in my opinion.

Also, the giant statue of liberty angel was just stupid looking and doesn't gel with a believable story. I believe that 300 years from now a ship called Enterprise could probably be flying out there. I believe the US Air Force could have kept a secret wormhole machine beneath Cheyenne Mountain. The suspension of disbelief only holds if you adhere to the rules of the world you create. Stone Angels now includes a giant bronze statue which is the most looked at object in the world that can stomp its way around New York causing small Earthquakes and no one looks outside a window causing it to stop in its path? Wha? Considering they filmed this episode in New York, it was missing a huge part of the reason New York is such an amazing place - the people. Whats the point of filming there if your just limiting your action to the top of a rock in a nondescript park and the inside of an apartment building?