• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

7X02 Dinosaurs On A Spaceship (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Grade "Dinosaurs On A Spaceship"

  • Geronimo!

    Votes: 54 38.0%
  • Good

    Votes: 56 39.4%
  • Average

    Votes: 21 14.8%
  • Bad

    Votes: 6 4.2%
  • Dinosaurs couldn't even save this episode

    Votes: 5 3.5%

  • Total voters
    142
Are you talking about me and not the show again? You can't help yourself can you.

Ok then, we'll talk the show.
Well done, we're finally learning.
Unless I've missed it can you explain why 11 killing soloman is any different to 6 killing shockeye? Simple, show related question there.
Do you really need me to explain? Either you're just being difficult, or else you've got little idea what happened to Shockeye and so you...well, you're being difficult by not checking that way.

When the Doctor killed Shockeye, Shockeye was chasing after him with a knife to kill him, having already slashed his leg. It's not murder to kill someone who's injured you and is chasing you with a knife to finish the job. Solomon was locked inside a ship about to be blown up which the Doctor actively caused the missiles to target and then actively did not save Solomon by helping him out of the ship, rather locking him in - and considering Solomon easily had his gammy leg kicked out from under him just before, it's not as if he was a physical threat.

Hmm, as I recall Six clearly got the drop on Shockeye, how else would he have got close enough to stuff a poison soaked rag in his gob? Taking that fact into account there were a whole heap of other options open to the Doctor, from whacking him on the head with something (which ok might have killed him) to using his own physicality (it isn't like we haven't seen the Doctor handle himself in a fight before now, what would Three have done I wonder) he could even have carefully dosed the cloth to render Shockeye merely unconcious. But no, he clasped the cloth to his mouth and held it there until he was dead.

Now don't get me wrong, Shockeye was a terrible character (in a terrible story) but there was always something rather creepy about that, and whether it was self defence or not (the nasty man cut my leg!) the Doctor still killed him (and by the way I think you'll find self defence won't always excuse you of murder).

This doesn't mean I think what 11 did was right, but this isn't the first time the Doctor has acted in this way and likely won't be the last, and I get the impression that what he did to solomon won't just be forgotten either...
 
Killing someone who's trying to kill you is not murder. A more analogous situation to how the Doctor killed Solomon would be if the he'd found Shockeye tied up and shot him in the head than what happened, that's how different it is.

Shockeye's also a terrific character. Throughout the entire story he's just so awful and so unnatural in his actions to what we think of as right that not only is he shudderingly repulsive in his character and actions, but there's a real sense of relief dramatically when he is killed.

I don't know how exactly you think posh old chap Pert would have handled being chased by a nutter with a knife having had his leg slashed, but it would hardly to be to the story's credit if he then subdued him with whatever his Venusian martial arts bollocks was called.

But if you can't see how killing a madman who's already slashed your leg and is following your trail of blood with a knife differs morally from locking someone in a ship you've made missiles target and actively chosen not to rescue instead, then we've no common frame of reference to continue the discussion.
 
And did the Doctor outright murder that guy or what? And quite gleefully, too.

Justifiable homicide.

Solomon admitted to genocide against the Silurians. Had his robots injure Rory's dad, killed one of the last members of an extinct species and threatened death whenever the Doctor gave him a chance.

Solomon was unrepentant and would definitely kill again. The Doctor had no other choice and I am behind him in his decision.

Plus, if the Doctor is operating under the Shadow Proclamations, from the Judoons actions, it appears immediate execution for crimes is part of the system.
 
The Doctor has killed plenty of times before... I don't understand where this 'no killing' nonsense has come from...

I could site examples of each 11 Doctor's killing, or 'not saving' someone, leading to their death.

What do people think he did in the Time War? Sit back and watch like a little puppy? As he said multiple times, he was on the front lines, fighting and killing for his people...

M
 
What do people think he did in the Time War? Sit back and watch like a little puppy? As he said multiple times, he was on the front lines, fighting and killing for his people...

M
THIS!

But going back to the first adventure he was ready to bash someones head in with a rock.
 
yeah that works...

In his second story, he spends a lot of time convincing the pacifist Thals to abandon their decades-long commitment to peace and go on a killing spree, just so he can retrieve a vital part of his TARDIS....

In his third story, he tries to throw Ian and Barbara out of the TARDIS while it's in flight lol

M
 
Could always site the 4th Doctor and Leela, if people don't like us using 1st Doctor as an example...

In "The Face of Evil," the Doctor discovers that because he did a terrible job repairing a godlike supercomputer on an alien planet, he's condemned the human colonists on the planet to generations and generations of hellish existence, segregated into one tribe of ultra-savages and one tribe of sterile scientists... Honest mistake, right?

He then allows the most the most bloodthirsty of the savages to run inside his TARDIS and travel around with him for two years, racking up an ever-increasing body count... The Doctor basically turns all of time and space into a slaughterhouse for his murderous traveling companion, Leela...

Nice guy lol

M
 
But if you can't see how killing a madman who's already slashed your leg and is following your trail of blood with a knife differs morally from locking someone in a ship you've made missiles target and actively chosen not to rescue instead, then we've no common frame of reference to continue the discussion.

You're right, we have no common frame of reference. Rather, what we have are a bunch of ad hoc and arbitrary just say - so distinctions from you that include, apparently, how terrific a character is.
 
The Tardis has some kind of protective shielding that helps protect those from the vacuum of space.

However, in the very first season of Doctor Who there was whole episode based around the fact that the doors opened while in transit, and all heck broke lose on the TARDIS, heh. They've certainly retconned, or changed the fact that the doors can be open in space now, cause it wasn't like that in the classic series.

Clearly, the Doctor learned from that experience and made some modifications to the TARDIS to handle that sort of situation! ;)

Mr Awe
 
Concerning atmospheric shields around the TARDIS as supposedly a "new" feature, in the "Horns of Nimon", Tom Baker's Doctor extended an atmospheric corridor to bridge the TARDIS with a freighter (transporting humanoid "tribute" for the panto Minotaurs).

So, really, not that "new".

Sincerely,

Bill
 
So, to recap, if the Silurians are too old, there's no way they'd even know what an ape was, let alone consider it a way to pejoratively refer to humans. If the Silurians are too young, they'd not be able to rescue any dinosaurs.

I think they're aware of humans and human history so they call them apes. It doesn't have to do with them going into hiding specifically when humans were Australopithecus.

But I wonder how they became aware of this history. If they've been poking their collective heads up now and then to check things out on the surface, then they should have realized the planet was safe to re-colonize, so that doesn't seem likely. If they know because they take human subjects and build a genetic profile, then where do they get other species to make a comparison and how do they know comparing humans to apes is pejorative to humans? Again, that doesn't seem likely.

What remains is interrogation of human prisoners/collaborators; some interaction that happens off-screen. I think this makes sense for the first and possibly second Silurian serials. This also explains the use of the "apes" insult in "The Hungry Earth" shows. But it seems terribly coincidental that the Silurians and their kin always hit on the same insult. And that's on top of insulting one recently discovered species by comparing it with a group you haven't even seen!

Well, the origin story of the Silurians was already messed up the first time they appeared (in the era of the Third Doctor). The thing with the moon is from their first appearance and I think the Doctor names them Silurians then. The ape thing could also be from that episode but I'm less sure about that right now.
So, actually, it's the Doctor who doesn't have any clue about Earth's prehistory. ;)

Actually he go the name 'Silurians' from a professors notes. He actually corrected himself in The Sea Devils, saying that they should more accurately be called Eocenes.

And yes, the approach of the Moon, caused the reptilian races to go into hibernation to survive a planetary collision that never came. Then along came the space freighter and actually did kill off the dinosaurs.

Sure. But ... if the Doctor corrected himself in "The Sea Devils", and implied they are more properly associated with the Eocene, then two problems arise. First, the Earth/Moon relationship came into being around 4.5 billion years ago. The Eocene ended around 34 million years ago. It simply doesn't make sense that h. reptilia was chased underground by an event that happened before life even arose on the planet! Second, the Eocene came well after non-avian dinosaurs went extinct ... so where did h. reptilia get the dinosaurs for their arc in "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship"?

So they can't be Eocenes, either. I suppose they should most properly be considered a part of the Mesozoic ... perhaps an evolved form of Troodon ... and the event they fled was the one that killed the dinosaurs. But then the Doctor has botched his knowledge of earth's prehistory not once but twice. That works with "ignore all my previous theories" Doctor Eleven, but Doctor Three seemed quite the master of science!
 
The Doctor has killed plenty of times before... I don't understand where this 'no killing' nonsense has come from...

I don't have a problem with the Doctor killing or allowing someone to die. I just think it was a bit jarring here, coming at the end of such a fluffy and lighthearted episode.

Not to mention the rather jokey and lighthearted attitude the Doctor had while doing it-- like he was Bruce Willis in an 80s action movie or something.

At least with Family of Blood it came at the end of a very serious and dramatic two-parter, and the Doctor didn't look like he was enjoying himself in any way.
 
Very little to add to what has been said already other than the fact that this has to be one of my favorite Who episodes ever, in both the Nu and Classic series. Loved hearing my son crack up at the jokes he got and just had a great time throughout, even at the darkish ending...
 
Well, the good news is that while there are those of us who weren't impressed with the episode, there's also a number who clearly liked it. And it seemed really popular with kids! So while our poll shows it wasn't as well received as "Asylum ...", I don't think it'll hurt the show, either.
 
I would have liked to have seen Nefertiti be a bit more amazed at her surroundings, considering the Doctor plucked her out of 1334 B.C. and onto a spaceship in the distant future, running around on a spaceship with dinosaurs, computer consoles, laser beams and whatnot.

Otherwise, the episode was a blast, with a lot of memorable lines. Loved Mark Williams as Brian Williams. Loved the bit with the trowel and his comment that he was riding a dinosaur on a spaceship and he'd only just come over to fix his light. :D
 
The episode was fun! Maybe I missed it but did anyone notice that Queen Nefertiti did not seem bothered by being on a spaceship traveling through space? One would think that someone from the 13th century BC would be freaking out traveling in the TARDIS especially since we've seen companions from the 21st century, much more modern times than Ancient Egypt, be really amazed at the ship that is bigger on the inside.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top