6.5x08 Let's Kill Hitler (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[DS9Continuing]

My brain has such a hard time with predestination paradoxes.

There's a lot of predestination paradox in this whole story. A big part of Moffat's storytelling technique as least as far back as "Blink."

River only gets her name because the Doctor told her that's what her name would be, because that's what the future her told him her name was. Likewise she gets her "Spoilers!" catchphrase because the Doctor repeats it to her, after he learned it from future River. I'm guessing that Doctor only dies in Utah because he discovered in Berlin that he was pre-destined to die in Utah. As someone pointed out in another thread, River wouldn't even exist if she hadn't already sacrificed herself for the Doctor in the Library.

So has the entire eye-patch lady story played out? Just seemed like it was going to be a bigger/longer thing.

Like others, I doubt we've seen the last of this. For one thing, we have the flash in the trailer of River wearing the eye-patch herself.

I didn't catch why the Doctor himself didn't regenerate. Was that some property of that particular poison?

They said so, yes.

...and had to explain why River didn't regenerate in the library.

That was already explained at the time, way back in "Forest of the Dead." River told the Doctor then that if he tied himself into the computer, the resulting charge would be enough to kill him for good without regeneration. That's the whole reason she took his place. So no explanation was needed for that here. That wasn't the point of it.

Any guesses on the most important question in the universe?

I'm thinking it's "River, will you marry me?"

I already answered that.

My only real big complaint is that Amy seems far too calm for a woman who lost her baby. Sure she knows it all works out in the end, but shouldn't she be demanding they go find baby Melody and avert the whole mess?

Well, really, Amy didn't even know she was pregnant until the baby was born. She hadn't had the nine months to get used to the idea and bond with the baby. She only had the month or so that she was kept prisoner on Demon's Run. Not saying at all that she doesn't care about the baby, only that I could see it being more of an intellectual connection than a purely instinctive, gut-level one. Maybe that could serve to explain some of it.

Excellent episode, though I was very shocked that the story was NOT about Hitler but about River.

There's some parallels there. The Teselecta stopped their assassination of Hitler because they realized it was too soon - you can't kill Hitler before WWII because it would be changing time. That's one of the basic precepts of time travel. Likewise they knew that River couldn't kill the Doctor here because he dies in Utah in 2011. Likewise we knew they couldn't kill River here because we already know when she dies - in the Library.

So the "Let's Kill Hitler" title was actually an encapsulation of that entire aspect of time travel.

I know it's pointless posting if you don't like it stop watching

Presumably because it's the most retarded thing any human being could ever say.

No, actually it's a very sensible thing to say. The only stupid thing about it is naively expecting fans on the internet to use logic and common sense.


.

 

[Shazam!]

Presumably because it's the most retarded thing any human being could ever say.

No, actually it's a very sensible thing to say. The only stupid thing about it is naively expecting fans on the internet to use logic and common sense.

No, that's the second. Mine is still the first.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Loved every second of it.

What was the significance, then, of the 'fish fingers and custard' line? Was it solely to imbue some confidence and fight in the Doctor to see out his 31 good minutes?

Indeed, anyone else reckon we'll be seeing what really happened in the 28 minutes or so between that scene and his return in the top and tails?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Loved every second of it.

What was the significance, then, of the 'fish fingers and custard' line? Was it solely to imbue some confidence and fight in the Doctor to see out his 31 good minutes?

Indeed, anyone else reckon we'll be seeing what really happened in the 28 minutes or so between that scene and his return in the top and tails?

The way I understood, fishfingers and custard was that something against his unbearable pain. So he ran off to get some to be able to do his almost dance routine in the tux... or something

 

[Captain Crow]

I liked the scene transition where Mels tosses Amy's police box model and it turns into the TARDIS.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I know it's pointless posting if you don't like it stop watching

Presumably because it's the most retarded thing any human being could ever say.

How is it retarded at all? If people don't like a show, and don't like it for a long time then why keep watching?

 

[Cutter John]

Overnights are in.

1 …. 10.6 (42.8%) …. The X Factor 20:00 ITV 1
2 …. 6.2 (28.7%) …. Doctor Who 19:15 BBC One
3 …. 5.4 (24.6%) …. All Star Family Fortunes 19:00 ITV 1
4 …. 4.5 (22.8%) …. BBC News 22:15 BBC One
5 …. 4.2 (17.8%) …. Casualty 20:45 BBC One

 

[Saul]

When the question is answered Silence will fall.

Didn't silence fall when every star in the universe exploded back in "The Pandorica Opens"?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

There's a lot of stuff I liked this week, but I just can't get past the layers and layers of stupid that have become part of the show since RTD left. I mean, a robot Amy piloted by hundreds of tiny assassins?

Yeah, all robots should be 40 feet tall Cybermen. Doctor Who was much less cheesy during RTD years.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Raise your hand if any of you thought of the 'David Tennant to return the Doctor Who' thread and had your fingers crossed while the Doctor was flipping through the various voice interfaces.

*raises hand*

Actually, I thought that, since they were just using static publicity shots of Rose, Martha and Donna, that the TARDIS could have offered a few moments of Sarah Jane too, which he refuses for some reason akin to guilt as well.

 

[Shazam!]

I know it's pointless posting if you don't like it stop watching

Presumably because it's the most retarded thing any human being could ever say.

How is it retarded at all? If people don't like a show, and don't like it for a long time then why keep watching?

Because they want to. The why is irrelevant and purely subjective.

It's like you're expecting someone to go "Oh yeah! I hadn't thought about not watching it! Good idea!"

 

[Cutter John]

Actually, I thought that, since they were just using static publicity shots of Rose, Martha and Donna, that the TARDIS could have offered a few moments of Sarah Jane too, which he refuses for some reason akin to guilt as well.

Probably because it was meant as a semi-comic moment, and having Sarah turn up would have brought that to a screeching halt?

 

[Stevil2001]

The robot and the miniaturization ray were the best part.

As for everything else... what is this I don't even

 

[wamdue]

The robot and the miniaturization ray were the best part.

makes me wonder if I should actually that Dave movie with Eddie Murphy.

Also yeah they could have used Sarah Jane, it might have been an nice tribute, but also I can see Cutter John point.Still think he should have used Idris.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Presumably because it's the most retarded thing any human being could ever say.

How is it retarded at all? If people don't like a show, and don't like it for a long time then why keep watching?

Because they want to. The why is irrelevant and purely subjective.

It's like you're expecting someone to go "Oh yeah! I hadn't thought about not watching it! Good idea!"

So they can watch every week hating every minute of it to come here and bitch and moan, but suggesting they should stop watching is retarded?

 

[intrinsical]

Anyone keeping track of The Doctor's Rules?

 

[David cgc]

What was the significance, then, of the 'fish fingers and custard' line? Was it solely to imbue some confidence and fight in the Doctor to see out his 31 good minutes?

Indeed, anyone else reckon we'll be seeing what really happened in the 28 minutes or so between that scene and his return in the top and tails?

Bingo. I have a feeling that there's going to be another flashback later in the season explaining exactly what the Doctor's plan was, and exactly what the epiphany about fish fingers and custard was. I suspect it involves the wedding, given that he dressed up in his tux and they were careful to bring it up more than once in the episode.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I've been a Doctor Who fan all my life and I love the show just as much now as I used to. Fantastic.

 

[Mr Light]

Is there a website somewhere with a chronological map of River's appearances? On her own timeline, I mean. It's getting hard to keep track

 

[Procutus]

Regeneration has lost all significance and wonder and magic and bittersweetness that it once had. It used to be that the Doctor regenerated only when he was finally defeated in some way or if he had to make a final act of sacrifice. It represented the end of a character we had grown to love and admire even if we often disliked him at first. As much as I initially disliked and prejudged each new Doctor, I grew to love and lament the loss of each of them from Hartnell to Tennant. That was the magic of regeneration. Now it's a plot device, drained of all emotional impact and meaning.

This is one of the things that has bothered me about the show as of late, and you've hit the nail right square on the head. Regeneration didn't used to be something that was brought up or bandied about every other episode; as you said, it occurred when the Doctor was basically out of options, and we always knew that he was burning through them a mite faster than the average Time-Lord.

Now, he's apparently got 9-10 more regen cycles, depending on just how many River has actually used on herself at this point? I guess that solves the question of how to keep the show going once Smith leaves and we would've eventually approached that (originally) 12th and final regen.

But this whole issue really does sum up just how drastically the show has change even since RTD left, let alone it's how different is has become from the source material.