5x07 Amy's Choice (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Cutter John]

Now imagine if they'd latched onto the demons running around Nine or Tens subconscience. That would have been really scary.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Now imagine if they'd latched onto the demons running around Nine or Tens subconscience. That would have been really scary.

Indeed, it would. The Dreamlord really seemed to be dealing with each character's fears about the other characters. Rory's feelings of not being as cool as the Doctor, the Doctor as some kind of conscienceless monster, and Amy's being torn between the Doctor and Rory. I think the Dreamlord isn't just the Doctor and would be quite different if their were others present. Imagine the Doctor and the Master together in this problem?

 

[Captain Pike]

To paraphrase...

The Doctor: I know who you are. There is only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you, though he can't possibly be here..

Or something like that.

I think it may be The Valeyard. Possibly the early stages of his development..

 

[Gov Kodos]

I'll grant that the Dreamlord is perhaps largely the Doctor's psyche, but since it is a projection created by the pollen, and was accessing all three folks, I am not sure calling him the Valeyard is accurate. It would be closer to say it is something the Doctor fears becoming, hence his 'seeing' himself as the Dreamlord in his reflection. The reflection being the Doctor's unspoken fears in the wake of Amy's question about the validity of the Dreamlord's characterisation of the Doctor.

 

[Starkers]

This is getting quite hilarious now. It is so obviously biting, and biting makes much more sense.

And of course it was a joke, or if not a joke as someone said a punchline. As I recall the scene goes something like this...

"I had to see four psychiatrists..." pause while she looks all shifty. ‘I kept biting them.'

As opposed to...

"I had to see four psychiatrists..." pause while she looks all shifty. ‘I kept fighting them.'

No, the scene went this way:

THE DOCTOR: You're Amelia!

AMY: You're late.

THE DOCTOR: Amelia Pond -- you're the little girl!

AMY: I'm Amelia, and you're late!

THE DOCTOR: What happened?

AMY: Twelve years.

THE DOCTOR: You hit me with a cricket bat!

AMY: Twelve years!

THE DOCTOR: A cricket bat!

AMY: Twelve years and four psychiatrists!

THE DOCTOR: Four?

AMY: I kept fighting them.

THE DOCTOR: Why?

AMY: .... They said you weren't real.

"Fighting" -- that is, refusing to acknowledge that the Doctor was not real -- is obviously much less serious an answer and more in tone with a romp for the whole family than a child biting someone. "Fighting" is a word that simply implies a refusal to accept what they tell her to accept; "biting" is an actual act of violence.



"Fighting." The idea of her biting someone is just disturbing.



Hey Starkers, remember when I told you I didn't care?



Yes, I saw the same episode you did. I heard "fighting." I saw it again, and I heard "fighting." Then I saw it again, and I heard "fighting. Then I saw it yet again, and I heard "fighting." Then I looked at that scene again after this debate popped up, and I heard "fighting."

Now, I could be mishearing it, but so could you. Until I see a script or hear from Moffat or Gillan, I'm not buying that she said "biting."

Because have to have something to argue about.

No we don't!

For this, however, you win the Internet.

Now what shall I do with it?

Well I rewatched the scene about four times last night while my tea was cooking. Sounds like biting to me, but maybe we should reconvene this discussion when the official script book comes out!

Damn you Moffat, if you were RTD you'd have published them online by now.

 

[captcalhoun]

i think the Dream Lord was largely from the Doctor because he said the seeds had been heated up and become active from the time rotor and he was in the console room ...at the... start... of... the... episode...and i just realised that was in the TARDIS dream and thus is actually pretty irrelevant...

ignore me.

 

[Photoman15]

Little girls bite when mad.

 

[Australis]

It is, 100% definitely, "biting".

Not only does it sound like that, look at her face as she says it. Mad, cheeky, a very naughty girl, like a girl who'd bite someone.

If she'd said "fighting", she'd just look defiant. It is not a defiant look.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When you fight a seven year old girl you are going to get bitten.

 

[Captain Pike]

Just rewatched this and its an awful lot of fun - there are just so many laugh out loud moments. This is possibly the funniest Doctor Who story since The Curse of Fatal Death.

I almost feel inclined to up my rating, but alas 'Excellent' or 'Geronimo' or whatever we are calling it at the moment is reserved for those truly special stories like The Unquiet Dead or Blink, and while this was very good I don't think it deserves quite that honour.

Its times like this that I wish there was an extra poll option for 'Bloody good but not quite excellent'

 

[Slugboy]

The Doctor: I know who you are. There is only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you, though he can't possibly be here..

Or something like that.

I think it may be The Valeyard. Possibly the early stages of his development..

After watching the episode, I interpreted the Doctor's line as just referring to himself, i.e. the Doctor hates himself more than anyone else hates him.

In terms of where the Dream Lord comes from, I think it's only a manifestation of the Doctor's dark side (not Amy's or Rory's), but with access to the memories of Amy and Rory as well.

 

[Captain Pike]

Well, the Valeyard is the Doctor, so the implication that he is referring to himself does not rule out the possibility of the other.

Also, the Dreamlord's actions fit with the modus operandi of the Valeyard - the last we saw of him he was manipulating dreams/illusions in the matrix..

Still, I could be barking up the wrong tree.

 

[bryce]

Was Amy eating custard in the opening scene?


(Looked like that...or ice cream...)

 

[Rowan Sjet]

I think it was cake mixture, going by the other buns in the oven.

 

[The]

Well, the Valeyard is the Doctor, so the implication that he is referring to himself does not rule out the possibility of the other.

Also, the Dreamlord's actions fit with the modus operandi of the Valeyard - the last we saw of him he was manipulating dreams/illusions in the matrix..

Still, I could be barking up the wrong tree.

Well, make room in the tree for me. That's the first thing I thought of, that this was merely another glimpse into the psychological path that could/will lead to the Valeyard persona.

For his next appearance, the Dream Lord should be played by Colin Baker....

 

[SeerSGB]

Well, the Valeyard is the Doctor, so the implication that he is referring to himself does not rule out the possibility of the other.

Also, the Dreamlord's actions fit with the modus operandi of the Valeyard - the last we saw of him he was manipulating dreams/illusions in the matrix..

Still, I could be barking up the wrong tree.

Well, make room in the tree for me. That's the first thing I thought of, that this was merely another glimpse into the psychological path that could/will lead to the Valeyard persona.

For his next appearance, the Dream Lord should be played by Colin Baker....

I think we got a big effing clue to "why" behind the Valeyard in "End of Time" with 10 and his fear of dying/regeneration. For me that was the moment right there that cement that the Valeyard was inevitable.

And put me down for Dream Lord = Valeyard.

 

[Captain Pike]

Yes, that's true.

Also, there was all that Timelord Victorious business in Waters of Mars that showed a hint of the potential darkside of the Doctor no longer constrained by a fully functional conscience.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

Finally got to watch the episode here in Australia. A massive thumbs up.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

This is just now being shown in the States, and what I've noticed thus far is that there a ton of commercials. Every five minutes, for heavens sakes!!! Arrgggggg! Geeeeeeezzzzzzzz!

 

[Mr Light]

Good not great episode... I had a hard time finding the old people to be creepy or threatening. And while I initially hoped it was the Master I almost immediately glommed to the fact that it was the Doctor's dark subconscious and that BOTH worlds were fake. Go me. At least they resolved once and for all the tired old tripe of the companion being in love with the Doctor!