5x02 The Beast Below (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Venardhi]

This episode was a bit of a mess for me, though most of it was in the execution. The writing had its issues: The glass of water thing was great (and I got the point of it immediately) until we see the queen is apparently obsessed with that exact thing only a minute later and seems not to have bothered doing anything about it for god knows how long. The queen herself was very 'unqueenly' and she seems to have nothing to do that she is so freely able to wander around the ship investigating in her mask (which is probably more distinctive than putting on some glasses or the like) shooting up the 'Smilers'. She reminded me of a cartoon character, in a bad way. The writing is definitely at fault here.

The 'Smilers' also seem to be a waste of a decent design. Their shtick is spooky enough for a more tonally suited episode (like 'Blink'), but they don't seem to have any real power and fall into the same problem that a lot of Dr. Who groups of villains do: Walking ominously toward our heroes to do -what- exactly? We saw the same thing last week with the multiform chasing our characters without any real suggestion of what it planned to do with them (bite them to death?) If we saw them physically hurt someone, rather than show the frowny face and hope that the automated systems took it from there, it would have helped a lot toward making that short pursuit more intense. And how is it they have self-replicating robots but can't make a damn engine?

The ship/setting itself didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Ignoring the previously mentioned fact that the UK was apparently one of the few/only countries not able to build ships(or engines more specifically) to send its people off the planet, the ship most certainly wasn't big enough for the population of the country, probably not even all of London and in contrast to the Doctor's dialogue earlier it was almost certainly not bolted together from anything pre-existing(we did see some brick walls and concrete and the like in the interiors, but what sense would that make anyways?). It also wasn't that dirty or lived-in from what we saw. In fact my first glance when the doctor was talking about something being wrong suggested to me that it was all too tidy and clean for a generational ship. The CGI of the ship was meh at best, and having the design basically be a shell on top of the whale made it hard for me to believe that it relied on the whale for support or anything like that. It just wasn't at all thought out. The doctor says they're in an 'overspill pipe' but the CGI team didn't bother to put anything around the mouth or make a scene showing the bonds of the whale falling away. "Who says there isn't a second mouth" is just a bad attempt at excusing bad film-making. We know what the creature looks like, and we certainly didn't see anything that looked anything like a second head/mouth on it anywhere. Of course the scale of the creature's mouth interior was probably only a 10th of the size of the mouth on the creature in the exteriors, so this just seems like bad communication between the teams.

The interiors (other than the mall or whatever it was) showed no sense of scale. I would have been much more convinced that they weren't just on a bunch of 10x12 sets if every few shots we saw out one of those many windows into the vista of the city around them. Everything was very empty too, where were all these millions of people hiding?

It wasn't a bad episode on the whole, and the Doctor/Amy stuff I actually quite liked, but it really did feel like an early draft they just never got around to polishing up, with an unsteady hand steering the direction and production side of the episode. Quite a let down from last week, but at least the resolution was something they did and not just a technobabble virus-doohicky.

 

[Kelthaz]

Despite being completely different episodes, my short review of this week's Stargate Universe episode applies equally well to Doctor Who.

Stupid, but entertaining.

8/10. (Good)

 

[Captain Pike]

It's probably the sloppiest story I've yet seen from Moffat. It also reminded me an awful lot of The Long Game. And not necessarily in a good way.

Was this Moffat doing his RTD impression?

 

[wamdue]

talking of London, after Moffatt said he did not want to do more London stuff becasue its become cliché why on earth does he have the Doctor take Amy to a spaceship that has every London cliché going, from the Underground to the Queen Vic, and then set the episode mostly in the London tower block.

 

[Jax]

If Scotland has been on a different spaceship for 300 years, how come Mandy recognises a Scottish accent?

When the doctor and Amy are vomited out of the whale (nice Jonah reference there!) where did they end up? The whale as shown is under the nation, not inside – should they not be spewed out into space?

What is the whale going to live on now – will ‘worthless humans’ still be a major component of its diet? How does Liz X feel about that?

At the beginning, when the Doctor has Amy by the ankle while she floats in space, he can see right up her nightie.

I see someone has there Star Trek magnify glasses on today You could find so many points about every Doctor Who episode ever made, silly Sci Fi is the charm.

As for the last one we now know why The Doctor was smiling so much nice view ey Doc. Also is it me or does the end theme tune sound great ? can we have that as the start intro.

 

[Mitty]

Hm, I liked it, loved the Character of Liz10. But the whole thing felt like just a rehash of "The Long Game", one of my least favourite episodes.

I didn't hate it, but it could have been a lot more.

Hopefully next week makes up for it. I'm just praying we don't end up with another Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks.

 

[Australis]

I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I have to work on this point by point...

Plot-holes-R-us, I’m afraid.
Why did the UK end up having to hijack a whale when apparently every other nation ordered their own spaceship?

UK was the last nation, time was running out, lack of resources.

If Scotland has been on a different spaceship for 300 years, how come Mandy recognises a Scottish accent?

Ancient sitcoms, I daresay.. More seriously, history tapes.

If the queen is 300 years old, and mixes fairly freely with the populace, why hasn’t someone told her?

Because everyone gets brainwiped. The only difference between her & them is they dion't have their body clock reset.

When the doctor and Amy are vomited out of the whale (nice Jonah reference there!) where did they end up? The whale as shown is under the nation, not inside – should they not be spewed out into space?

I wondered too, and decided it must have been a pipe fixed to the whale's head, that was removed when te abdicate button was hit. Or something like that. Or we simply couldn't see it from that angle. Not a biggie.

The whale we see doesn’t have extuberances. What are the tentacles that conveniently pop up through the floor?

On it's back, where we can't see them due to the shell.

Incredibly tolerant critters these whales, not to feel any malice after 300 years of torture.

Watch the way its tentacle thingy caressed the children in the Tower. Ancient, endless compassion.

If the whale doesn’t eat children, why are they still being fed to it?

Because that's what secret police do.

What is the whale going to live on now – will ‘worthless humans’ still be a major component of its diet? How does Liz X feel about that?

Probably just organic waste. And keep in mind it's a star whale, what did it live on before the humans came along.

At the beginning, when the Doctor has Amy by the ankle while she floats in space, he can see right up her nightie.

Well, he's a relatively young man now.

Smith made quite a good Doctor. Amy is much too ‘Mary Sue’ for my liking. She’s already more essential than Rose in keeping the Doctor from doing something he’ll regret for ever. Interesting recurring theme of the Doctor’s feelings about children. Is that notion running parallel with 'the crack'? I predict we will see more of the Doctor rescuing little girls - and a return to Young Amelia before the end of the series.

I wouldn't mind seeing Amelia again. The Doctor has parental feelings, the line he has about parents walking past the crying girl indicates that. Tat thought though, about the children, makes me wonder about the nature of the Crack.

Hope you aren't offended by my point-to-point answers.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Really good episode.

I don't think much of Matt Smith as the Doctor so far, but he makes a really good assistant to Amy Pond.

 

[Samurai8472]

Wow

"Help me Obi Doctor Kenobi, you're our only hope!"

At least the slide into the mouth wasn't a trash compactor

The ending reminded me of "The Empire Strikes back"

 

[Slugboy]

Wow

"Help me Obi Doctor Kenobi, you're our only hope!"

At least the slide into the mouth wasn't a trash compactor

The ending reminded me of "The Empire Strikes back"

I notice a lot of people are pointing out parallels to Star Wars. Although I agree with this assessment, I'm surprised that no one yet has yet pointed out the parallel to the movie "The Matrix Reloaded" where:

Spoiler: Spoiler for The Matrix Reloaded

Much like The One occurs in cycles, and his rebellion culminates in him making a choice to reset the Matrix program in order to preserve the stability of the Matrix, Queen Elizabeth X's investigations always culminate in her discovering the truth, then making a choice to reset her own memory and reign in order to preserve the stability of Starship UK.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I'm getting a little annoyed here. Matt Smith is doing a wonderful job, but the story ideas are getting a little stale. Last week we had Girl in the Fireplace, Part 2 and this week is Meat, Part 2.

Is the whole series just going to be derivative? I mean I'm all for call backs, as with New Earth/ Gridlock, but new story ideas would be nice.

 

[davejames]

I'm getting a little annoyed here. Matt Smith is doing a wonderful job, but the story ideas are getting a little stale. Last week we had Girl in the Fireplace, Part 2 and this week is Meat, Part 2.

Is the whole series just going to be derivative? I mean I'm all for call backs, as with New Earth/ Gridlock, but new story ideas would be nice.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call the last one simply Girl in the Fireplace part 2. The Doctor revisiting Amy only made up a small part of a much larger story, unlike the other ep where it was basically the main, driving idea.

As to this ep, yes the alien creature running a city isn't new, but there were more than enough other elements to make it feel a bit different (the voting, the enforcers, the benevolence of the creature, etc). Not to mention that the story's main purpose and effect on the characters (namely the Doctor and Amy) was different.

 

[Checkmate]

Moffatt also had a very specific reason for the Doctor meeting Amy as a little girl and then not showing up against for 12 years. He wanted Amy to know the 11th Doctor better than he knew himself. Afterall, he's only know himself for a day or two; she's known of him for 14 years and spent a big chunk of that time contemplating every little detail. And that played a big part of the resolution to this second episode.

He's less interested in the actual stories right now and more focused on the characters themselves. Once he gets them established I have no doubt that the stories themselves will improve dramatically.

 

[Thestral]

I voted "Good." I enjoyed it, especially the leads - again, Smith is the Doctor, and Amy's just as good as Rose, Martha, and Donna. I liked Liz X, I liked Mandy, I thought the set-up and the Star Whale and the Smilers were all very neat.

I got a very "fairy-tale" vibe from this episode, like the last one. The parts may not all match up perfectly, and there's some serious unanswered questions, but like Father's Day and Gridlock, it's the overall emotional story being told that's more important, and I enjoyed it for that. I guess in that sense my issue with Eleven's reaction (from below) makes more sense - more "faerie" than "fairy" if you will.

Probelm is, there was too much being thrown at us for me and I was left feeling a bit rushed and overwhelmed. There were at least three stories here: Liz and her (self-)conspiracy, the captured Star Whale, and the voting booths. They were welded together effectively, but we hardly had time to breathe, let alone get a good sense of any of this.

I thought the Smilers were a very good, effectively creepy villain that were poorly-explained and definitely underused. Part of it's that they ultimately contributed nothing and quickly vanished as a real threat. The Vashta Narada, the Weeping Angels, the Clockwork, and the Empty Child were all better used.

As much as I'm loving Amy and Eleven, I think he got way too hostile way too quick. Maybe if he didn't want companions making choices he shouldn't send them out alone with little understanding? And it's not like the two solutions he came up with were really the only ones - the TARDIS was still there after all.

I don't understand what the point of the "voting" was. I mean, I understand what the point was and why it makes a good story, but I don't get the internal logic. Why was the conspiracy being explained and then wiped from memory in the first place instead of just to Liz? I would've liked to see a lot more on that bit.

Why does that matter to the story? I mean, I'm sure there's an interesting story there, too, but it's really not important to this story, now is it? All you need to know for this story is, Starship U.K. is the United Kingdom's future incarnation, created out of desperation when the other nations had fled the Earth.

If it's not important to the story, why mention it? It's in fact very important to the story, because it's how Starship UK came to enslave (so they thought) the Star Whale in the first place. For some unexplained reason, every single other nation on Earth was able to safely flee without the aid of a Star Whale, and the British were left to burn and their children were left to cry, which attracted the mercy of a passing Whale. Very lovely, very fairy tale, but there's a legitimate question of "how did the UK end up in that position?"

And how is this any different from just bringing Rose to the year 5 Billion and letting her wander about Platform One? The Doctor always thrusts his companions into situations.

It's vastly different. Nine was just taking Rose to sight-see on Platform One, and wasn't expecting anything at all to happen. Eleven specifically sent Amy on a mission - investigate the Smilers via talking to Mandy because he knew something was up. A more apt comparison would be to "The Empty Child," and Nine made a point of lamenting the fact that Rose wandered off.

Because this episode made it clear that he's just her imaginary friend and that's exactly how she sees him

"The Beast Below" established no such thing at all. The opening narration is rather obviously ironic, not a literal description of how she sees the Doctor.

What makes you see it as ironic, other than your own biases? What she said is exactly what happened; her tone wasn't ironic, it was more "astonished" - because after all who wouldn't be if their imaginary friend came and took them away?

Not because her heart raced or because her panties got soggy everything she saw the Doctor.

I'm trying to think of a way for your description of the nature of romantic affection to be cruder. I'm failing.

He was pretty clearly jerking your chain. And dong a good job of it too.

...and there's the bit about her marital status in the voting booth. I think what the episode is meant to convey is that she's unsure about her wedding, deep down. (Although that's actually pretty common right before wedding day, I think.)

Yes. Amy doesn't know what her status is; the audience doesn't know what her status is. The Doctor is completely oblivious that there's even a question of "status" at all.

Smith made quite a good Doctor. Amy is much too ‘Mary Sue’ for my liking. She’s already more essential than Rose in keeping the Doctor from doing something he’ll regret for ever.

Um, no. A Mary Sue is a character that's perfect, has all the answers, never makes mistakes, outshines the main characters, and is beloved by all. The very fact that Amy chose the "Forget" button and tried to keep the Doctor from learning about the Star Whale at first means that she's not a Mary Sue.

While typically true, that's not entirely accurate. See the TVTropes entry, Mary Sue.

It's probably the sloppiest story I've yet seen from Moffat.

That's how I'd categorize it yeah.

 

[Saul]

^ Yeah I liked the poem at the start and the one that was changed at the end...also what was with the tear at the end? Is that another allusion to the spacial rift that was mentioned in last weekend's episode? Second time we've seen a rip of that nature.

The crack seen on the Starship U.K. in the year 3295 is, indeed, identical to the crack in Amy's room in the year 1996, and to the pattern displayed on the TARDIS viewscreen when Amy entered the TARDIS in 2010.

Woah!
Now i'm excited.

As for this episode it didn't really grab me in the way I "expected" it to. That said, it was a good episode but felt a bit detached from last weeks episode. I thought it's a bit regular Who adventure although I liked the undertones of 1984.

Got the star wars line though 'Doctor, you're our only hope'.

Not to mention the "inside the beast" bit where they see the teeth (ala' Empire), and the obvious 'screen-wipe' cut to the Doctor staring out into space near the end of the episode...

Also in the beasts mouth scene reminded me a lot of the scene in the garbage compressor in ANH

 

[Checkmate]

I'm curious to know how they didn't die instantly after dropping into the star whale's mouth if it was actually exposed to space (I don't think it was; I'm in agreement that he was completely contained until the Abdicate button was pressed).

I also don't get why Liz10's options were "Forget" and "Abdicate."

 

[Slugboy]

I don't understand what the point of the "voting" was. I mean, I understand what the point was and why it makes a good story, but I don't get the internal logic. Why was the conspiracy being explained and then wiped from memory in the first place instead of just to Liz? I would've liked to see a lot more on that bit.

I interpreted the voting booths as having a twofold purpose: first, it was an attempt to give legitimacy and moral authority to those in power. It might seem silly, but even dictators today hold sham elections to justify their continued rule (of course, they always get 99% of the vote, since if you vote against them you get executed, whether by getting shot or getting fed to a Star Whale)

The second purpose was that it allowed for the truth to be revealed to each citizen in a controlled environment, such that the citizen could easily be disposed of if they disagreed. Rather than citizens figuring it out for themselves while in the shower or something and running around rebelling, they are told about it in the closed voting booth with a Smiler, a lockable door and an openable floor, where it is easy to toss them to the beast if they try to rebel.

Very lovely, very fairy tale, but there's a legitimate question of "how did the UK end up in that position?"

There could be a number of explanations---maybe the people of the UK believed that the impending solar flares were a myth and decided to do nothing about it until it was too late, or maybe the UK did build an engine, but it malfunctioned/blew up/was sabotaged. Regardless of what happened, it doesn't really affect the story, but I suppose it would have been interesting to find out why.

By the way, totally unrelated question: does anyone know who the grey-haired man is in the "Starship UK" voting booth video? He looks strangely familiar somehow.

 

[tomalak301]

I really liked this episode. I'm not sure if it was as good as the premiere (Actually it really wasn't) but it was nice to see more meat added to both the new Doctor and Amy with the use of a scifi concept. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this chemistry between Amy and the Doctor even though I'm a bit uneasy if things go to a "relationship" other than just friends at this point. Hopefully they slow it down a bit.

I will say though there were a number of Star Wars references I noticed right away. The mouth of the whale (Trash compactor) and the reactions to it, Help us Doctor, you're our only hope, and maybe that bit at the end. Still though, very enjoyable, and I really loved the poem, especially when Sci posted it and I could actually read it.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

The mouth of the whale (Trash compactor) and the reactions to it, Help us Doctor, you're our only hope,

Okay, those parts were awesome.

 

[Thestral]

I don't understand what the point of the "voting" was. I mean, I understand what the point was and why it makes a good story, but I don't get the internal logic. Why was the conspiracy being explained and then wiped from memory in the first place instead of just to Liz? I would've liked to see a lot more on that bit.

I interpreted the voting booths as having a twofold purpose: first, it was an attempt to give legitimacy and moral authority to those in power. It might seem silly, but even dictators today hold sham elections to justify their continued rule (of course, they always get 99% of the vote, since if you vote against them you get executed, whether by getting shot or getting fed to a Star Whale)

The second purpose was that it allowed for the truth to be revealed to each citizen in a controlled environment, such that the citizen could easily be disposed of if they disagreed. Rather than citizens figuring it out for themselves while in the shower or something and running around rebelling, they are told about it in the closed voting booth with a Smiler, a lockable door and an openable floor, where it is easy to toss them to the beast if they try to rebel.

The first point makes sense, but kind of falls apart when you think that even the "sham" elections don't actually seem to "elect" anybody. If you could never remember what had happened when you voted, wouldn't that raise at least a significant amount of suspicion?

I'm still not really seeing the second purpose. The Smilers see everything and they apparently have a pretty good grasp on the population, and based on the people's reactions to Mandy, a single rebel should be pretty easily disposed of.

Very lovely, very fairy tale, but there's a legitimate question of "how did the UK end up in that position?"

There could be a number of explanations---maybe the people of the UK believed that the impending solar flares were a myth and decided to do nothing about it until it was too late, or maybe the UK did build an engine, but it malfunctioned/blew up/was sabotaged. Regardless of what happened, it doesn't really affect the story, but I suppose it would have been interesting to find out why.

For me at least just the mention of it with no context raised more questions than it answered. It simply makes no sense that if every country on Earth left in starships the UK would stay behind - and if it was a tech failure, that could easily be mentioned.

I really liked this episode. I'm not sure if it was as good as the premiere (Actually it really wasn't) but it was nice to see more meat added to both the new Doctor and Amy with the use of a scifi concept. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this chemistry between Amy and the Doctor even though I'm a bit uneasy if things go to a "relationship" other than just friends at this point. Hopefully they slow it down a bit.

I'm still not convinced they're going to "relationship" stage. Remember, the Doctor has known Amy for, what, maybe a day of actual time? And a significant amount of that as a 10 year old.