5x02 The Beast Below (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Sci]

They're permanently locked away, so he really is alone. And he did mumble some explanation to Amy. By the way, Matt Smith's delivery here didn't appeal to me. After what we've seen in The End of Time, which from the Doctor's point of view was only a few days ago, the line came off as oddly detached and sort of goofy.

I think Eccleston and Tennant conveyed the Doctor's tragic background much better when they told their companions about the Time War.

Well, yeah, because Eleven wasn't trying to convey his tragic background. He was trying to gloss over it because he doesn't want to talk about it. You're holding it against Smith for not delivering a moving performance where he once again mourns the Time Lords when the entire point of his character's agenda was to avoid doing just that.

"Have you ever run away from something, just because you could?" "Yes. Once." What's he referring to?

Presumably, he's referring to that time he stole an obsolete Type-40 TARDIS from Gallifrey and started wandering time and space for a while. He only did it once -- and he's still going at it.

Excellent episode, but a lot of unanswered questions (and not in a good way):

1. How was every other single nation on the entire world, from Nigeria to Scotland, able to abandon the Earth in working spaceships but not Great Britain?

Why does that matter to the story? I mean, I'm sure there's an interesting story there, too, but it's really not important to this story, now is it? All you need to know for this story is, Starship U.K. is the United Kingdom's future incarnation, created out of desperation when the other nations had fled the Earth.

2. Isn't Scotland part of the United Kingdom? Did the blacks in the United States go off on a separate spaceship than the whites? Seemed like a rather nasty sentiment disguised as a joke.

Well, first off, African-Americans don't have their own separate country within the United States the way the Scots have Scotland within the United Kingdom.

Secondly, in what sense is it a "nasty" sentiment, especially since it's quite plausible that at some point in real life, Scotland could become an independent state? Is it nasty against the Scots, or nasty against the United Kingdom?

Thirdly: Sheesh, lighten up. The point of the joke wasn't to say that Scotland was right or wrong for going off on their own, just to say that the Scots and the English will probably always have a bit of a standoffish relationship and to have a laugh at that fact.

3. What the bloody hell were the Smilers? Where did they come from and what was their function? Why were the hooded people able to turn their heads around? This all made no sense. What was the point?

We saw their function. They're the secret police, the enforcers. Created by the government. Some were fully robotic, and some were cybernetic. Do you really need this spelled out for you when you saw it?

There's an old saying in storytelling: Show, don't tell.

5. How does Winston Churchill have a direct line to the Doctor?

Presumably the same way Martha Jones does -- the Doctor worked his magic on a period phone and installed a device on it that would let it contact the TARDIS through time. Again, do you really need everything spelled out for you when you've already seen something similar explained in previous episodes?

7. Why do we need to see such a nasty, petty, unforgiving side of the Doctor?

Because the Doctor isn't perfect and to portray him as such would be a disservice to the character and to the audience.

Although I mostly enjoyed the episode, I agree that the "hug" scene was a bit out of place and premature. In the previous episode, we see how Amelia, a 7-year-old orphan girl with a neglectful aunt in an unfamiliar place (England), puts her trust in a man who promises he will return shortly, then abandons her for 12 years (through no fault of his own, but still). Then he shows up, and proceeds to abandon her again for 2 more years (less excusable, since his TARDIS is in full working order) and when he returns, he dismisses his mistake with an "oops". I found Amy's suspicious demeanour at the end of 5x01 appropriate, i.e. she might be thinking "the Doctor has hurt me once before, despite promising not to, so who knows what he is up to this time?"

Fast-forward only one episode, and it seems Amy has warmed to the Doctor far too fast. I was hoping to see some more exploration of the unresolved issues between Amy and the Doctor. Maybe we'll see it in later episodes.

I think the key here is Amy realizing that the Doctor is the last of his kind. I think her understanding of just who and what he is shifted at that point, and prompted her to realize just how lonely he must truly be, and how painful the situation with the space whale must have been for him.

But I also don't think that the fact that she chose to express her affection for him at a time when she sensed he needed some emotional reassurance means that the tension and secrets and suspicion is gone, either. In real life, people often have unresolved conflicts that can be put on the back-burner when other issues come to the forefront; that doesn't mean that they're gone or it's a discontinuity, it just means that people are multi-dimensional.

Amy adjusted quite well to being in the future, I'm not sure if i like or dislike this. On one hand, it is nice to see a competent companion who doesn't freak out at future stuff and can adjust well. On the other hand, a 21st century human would pretty much freak out at the future stuff and get into a lot of trouble and may have trouble adjusting.

Wouldn't that really just depend on the individual? I feel like you're trying to make a big, sweeping statement about how all people from today would react to something, and it just seems kind of silly to me to claim that. Some 21st Century Humans would certainly freak out; others wouldn't.

I seriously think the Doctor overreacted with her though, he was really harsh on her, too harsh. Kinda mean honestly.

Yeah. But I also think the thing to remember about the Doctor is that, 1. he has a that harsh streak to him -- that's always been a part of who he is, and 2. he's adjusting to having a companion again after traveling what, for all we know, could have been decades for him between "Journey's End" and "The Eleventh Hour."

Average.
Why did the doctor send Amy to wonder off five minutes into her first TARDIS ride?

Exactly, making on my point above, this seemed odd to me, a brand new companion, never been to the future, has no idea what is going on, and the Doctor sends her on her merry way like she is a seasoned pro. Very irresponsible of the Doctor.

And how is this any different from just bringing Rose to the year 5 Billion and letting her wander about Platform One? The Doctor always thrusts his companions into situations.

And people who still think Amy is romantically ga-ga over the Doctor at this point are totally barmy.

And what makes you think she lacks romantic feelings for him from this episode? (I find that claim especially amusing, considering that others are claiming that Amy is warming up to the Doctor too fast -- wouldn't someone harboring romantic feelings for somebody warm up to him/her faster than if they didn't?)

And what, exactly, does "romantically ga-ga" mean? Why do you frame the experience of having romantic feelings for someone in disempowering terms? Having feelings for someone doesn't mean you're blind to their nature or choices or faults, nor does it mean you lose self-initiative.

* * *

As for me:

Loved it. It's not "Human Nature" or "The Girl in the Fireplace," but few things are. It's definitely right up there with the best of nuWho.

Also, Amy is really, really growing on me. She's officially displaced Martha as my second favorite companion, and if she keeps showing the kind of quick insight, assertiveness, and compassion and affection she showed in this episode, I suspect she may even displace Rose as my favorite companion.

And I am a diehard Rose/Doctor shipper, do recall.

 

[Samurai8472]

Hoho, we finally get to hear the DAAAAA........LEEEEEKKSS line after like months of waiting

 

[Admiral_Young]

I really enjoyed the episode...really enjoying Matt and Karen. Liz X was bad ass! So was the little girl. Spaceship UK was an interesting concept as was the space whale. I couldn't help think about Kal-El with all the talk of last of his kind. I loved the hug at the end of the episode. I love Amy so far...and I have to agree with Sci regarding the romantic thing. When the little girl (I have forgotten her name now) asks if the Doctor was her boyfriend she hesitates in her answer I believe. I could be wrong....and the teaser at the ending with the phone call from the Baron Harkonnen (gotta love me Ian McNiece as Winston Churchhill is awesomeness)!! I love Matt's quirkiness and his seriousness too. I enjoyed his little temper tantrum when he was frustrated at us humans again reminded me of the Ninth Doctor. Can't wait for next week's episode.

 

[ITL]

An OK episode, I suppose. It didn't really grab me, though. *shrug*

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I thought it felt a bit disjointed at times, and some scenes lacked the emotional weight they were obviously supposed to have, as if they had to trim out quite a lot to make the whole thing fit in the allotted time. I wasn't a big fan of the "big space whale luurves the chiiiildren" ending either.

That being said, I thought it was really good. Great performances from the two leads. And while most science-fiction series are happy to stretch one or two overcooked ideas over 40 minutes, Doctor Who keeps throwing idea after idea at us. I mean TARDIS EVA, Starship UK, Smilers, enigmatic glasses of water, voting booths with a "forget" button, Elizabeth the Tenth, space whale, and probably one or two others, all in the same episode? If you don't think that's impressive, then you're no longer the woman I married, Deirdre.

 

[Bones2]

I rate it among the best of all new Who. It may not be quite perfect ("All in all, I rule", ugh), but it was very good. I'm a lot happier with Smith after watching it too. And for the first time I can recall, the music didn't seem intent on assaulting my senses. All in all, terrific.

 

[Sci]

I really liked the poem Moffat used to unify the story, particularly the ending. I loved the way it drove home the allegory about a society that depends upon exploitation of the oppressed, and the moral about how that exploitation can be turned to consent if oppression is ended.

A hole sends a man above, below
One has a plan, but both must go
Mile after mile, about beneath
One has a smile, and one has teeth
Though the man above might say Hello
Expect no love from the beast below

In bed above or deep asleep
While greater love lies further deep
This dream must end, this world must know
We all depend on the beast below.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yeah I liked the poem at the start and the one that was changed at the end...also what was with the tear at the end? Is that another allusion to the spacial rift that was mentioned in last weekend's episode? Second time we've seen a rip of that nature.

 

[Sci]

^ Yeah I liked the poem at the start and the one that was changed at the end...also what was with the tear at the end? Is that another allusion to the spacial rift that was mentioned in last weekend's episode? Second time we've seen a rip of that nature.

The crack seen on the Starship U.K. in the year 3295 is, indeed, identical to the crack in Amy's room in the year 1996, and to the pattern displayed on the TARDIS viewscreen when Amy entered the TARDIS in 2010.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I thought so! I'm very intrigued by this arc already...really loving pretty much everything about the first two episodes and despite being excited I was cautiously optimistic! Matt and Karen and the Moff have changed my mind so far. I enjoyed the Doctor avoiding telling Amy about his past...reminded me of the Ninth in that regard who didn't really reveal much to Rose for a few episodes down the road if I recall.

 

[Bones2]

Oh hang on, I've thought of a plot hole. So there's children crying in the UK as the planet about to heat up and spacewhale hears it (that's not the problem), so it shows up. But the UK is able to build all that ship yet not an engine?

Meh, I'll forgive it. I can't deny the story had a big effect on me while watching it. I enjoyed it, and it was a bit moving (as much for the story as for the fact it's so much better than RTD). 4 out of 5.

 

[Checkmate]

And what makes you think she lacks romantic feelings for him from this episode? (I find that claim especially amusing, considering that others are claiming that Amy is warming up to the Doctor too fast -- wouldn't someone harboring romantic feelings for somebody warm up to him/her faster than if they didn't?)

Because this episode made it clear that he's just her imaginary friend and that's exactly how she sees him; that the reason she escaped with him was to avoid the drudgery of a normal life and marriage to someone she seems to have settled for simply for the sake of having any kind of life at all. Not because her heart raced or because her panties got soggy everything she saw the Doctor. Originally, he was her escape from a broken childhood. Now, he's her escape from a mundane life.

Just like the first episode all but said, and the second one demonstrated in full.

And of course she's warming up to him "quickly" because it hasn't been "quickly!" He's been with her since she was seven-years-old, in her thoughts and dreams if not her reality.

 

[Checkmate]

Oh hang on, I've thought of a plot hole. So there's children crying in the UK as the planet about to heat up and spacewhale hears it (that's not the problem), so it shows up. But the UK is able to build all that ship yet not an engine?

If you had watched the show and paid attention, you'd have known that wasn't the case. While they didn't explain why they weren't able to build a fully functional ship, they did explain that they captured the star whale first then built a ship around it as the Earth became more and more unbearable to live in.

It's not like the disaster struck in the span of a few hours. It apparently was building up for a very long time, and was still in the process when the star whale heard their cries.

 

[Sci]

And what makes you think she lacks romantic feelings for him from this episode? (I find that claim especially amusing, considering that others are claiming that Amy is warming up to the Doctor too fast -- wouldn't someone harboring romantic feelings for somebody warm up to him/her faster than if they didn't?)

Because this episode made it clear that he's just her imaginary friend and that's exactly how she sees him

"The Beast Below" established no such thing at all. The opening narration is rather obviously ironic, not a literal description of how she sees the Doctor.

that the reason she escaped with him was to avoid the drudgery of a normal life and marriage

No such thing was established. In fact, at the very end, Amy seems to imply that she was frightened to get married, not bored that the prospect.

And the fact that she hesitates when Mandy asks her if the Doctor is her boyfriend is a rather strong indicator that she does have romantic feelings for him. And that's to say nothing of the "I've got you" moment they shared.

Not because her heart raced or because her panties got soggy everything she saw the Doctor.

I'm trying to think of a way for your description of the nature of romantic affection to be cruder. I'm failing.

Again, what's with this tendency to dismiss the nature of romantic affection by describing it in the crudest, most disempowering of terms possible? As though romance is only a matter of wet panties and tented trousers?

 

[WillsBabe]

Thirdly: Sheesh, lighten up. The point of the joke wasn't to say that Scotland was right or wrong for going off on their own, just to say that the Scots and the English will probably always have a bit of a standoffish relationship and to have a laugh at that fact.

Exactly. The question of Scottish independence etc also figures into the joke, too. Good job explaining it, Sci.

Quick thoughts from me:
Didn't really care for Liz 10. I like the idea of her, I just don't like the way the actress played her. OTOH, the Queen investiating what her Government is up to might not be a bad idea. I suppose the way that Government and State works in the UK has changed by the time of Starship UK since the Queen doesn't have the top dog power they gave her in this episode.

I like the idea of Forget or Protest. I like the nice commentary on how an electorate does or does not sanction the actions of its government; how we are all generally passtive either because we don't want to know what they are really up to or give them carte blanche do to it. A nice bit of political commentary coming up to a UK General Election.

I liked the moment when Amy asked 11 if he is a parent, and he chose not to answer.

I thought it was pretty weak to have the Doctor send Amy off on an errand on the first strange place they landed on, on her own. To me that seemed like weak writing.

Lots of people up-thread are asking why the UK went off on its own. I assumed that all countries just built their own ships. Alternatively, if they didn't then I assume that the UK chose to do it alone, the way that the UK has a tendancy to want to do. We like all that water around our little island nation, you know. Stops us having to interact with the rest of the world. (This is self-deprecating humour, before anyone takes offence in the rest of the world!)

I enjoyed the episode when I was watching it, but looking back, I'm liking it less. Dunno why that is.

 

[Bones2]

Oh hang on, I've thought of a plot hole. So there's children crying in the UK as the planet about to heat up and spacewhale hears it (that's not the problem), so it shows up. But the UK is able to build all that ship yet not an engine?

If you had watched the show and paid attention, you'd have known that wasn't the case. While they didn't explain why they weren't able to build a fully functional ship, they did explain that they captured the star whale first then built a ship around it as the Earth became more and more unbearable to live in.

It's not like the disaster struck in the span of a few hours. It apparently was building up for a very long time, and was still in the process when the star whale heard their cries.

I don't like your tone.

I'm just saying, that they could build all that ship and not an engine is a little daft. But easily forgiveable. As I say, I think it was one of the best episodes of all new Who.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Again, what's with this tendency to dismiss the nature of romantic affection by describing it in the crudest, most disempowering of terms possible? As though romance is only a matter of wet panties and tented trousers?

Because falling in love makes us feel fragile and exposed and vulnerable, it reminds us of false hopes and lost opportunities, it lets our emotions take control of us and change us, and we're afraid of that.

 

[matthunter]

And the fact that she hesitates when Mandy asks her if the Doctor is her boyfriend is a rather strong indicator that she does have romantic feelings for him.

I took that more as Amy suddenly remembering that she's run out on Rory - a bit like the "I've run off to the future with a guy I know almost nothing about!" realization that Rose had in End of the World. The very next part of the conversation is about her getting married.

 

[Checkmate]

I don't like your tone.

<sing song voice> Irony...

 

[WillsBabe]

Again, what's with this tendency to dismiss the nature of romantic affection by describing it in the crudest, most disempowering of terms possible? As though romance is only a matter of wet panties and tented trousers?

Because falling in love makes us feel fragile and exposed and vulnerable, it reminds us of false hopes and lost opportunities, it lets our emotions take control of us and change us, and we're afraid of that.

I've never had that experience of love. Interesting insight, Mirror.