50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread

[Commishsleer]

I find this a bit of a nothing episode. So I'd rather watch a "worse" episode like "Spock's Brain" because its more entertaining.

I don't mind Mira as a character. But I don't like her enough to be that concerned about her fate even as Scotty's girlfriend. This episode is an example of what happens when they don't have the lead characters in peril - I just don't care all that much.

I started to think shouldn't they try to save the Zetarans instead of saying their time is gone.

 

[Poltargyst]

For a time, I considered "Zetar" to be the absolute worst episode. It's still bottom of the barrel, but "Plato's Stepchildren" has held that dishonor most consistently and presently reigns.

No it doesn't.

 

[Poltargyst]

I think we're reading from the same page, Corp!
JB

And both wrong.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No it doesn't.

For the dishonor of what I consider the worst episode to be, the fuck it doesn't. "Plato's Stepchildren" most certainly does hold that dishonor.

For a time, I considered "Zetar" to be the absolute worst episode. It's still bottom of the barrel, but "Plato's Stepchildren" has held that dishonor most consistently and presently reigns.

 

[Commishsleer]

Plato's Stepchildren is one of the best TOS episode.
Zetar one of the worst. Because its a bit boring - nothing else that's that bad. I still will watch it.

 

[Henoch]

It may simply be that Spock and Spock had additional command training. DeSalle was a command officer before being assigned to engineering but then McCoy is of similar rank, and is head of life sciences as well as chief medical officer and is not a line officer.

I suppose the question I'm asking is, on a ship that seems to be two-thirds lieutenants, how does the average crewman tell who should be giving orders in a crisis?

McCoy is a section head and people report to him. He is in command over these people, but he cannot command a starship. When Spock turned himself over for mutiny (a personnel matter), he surrendered to McCoy because he was the highest ranking officer, but McCoy did not take command of the ship. Also, due to his rank (Lt. Cmd), he does not report to Spock (Cmd), he reports directly to the Captain, but if Spock is left in command of the ship and the Captain is not around, then Spock can give him orders.

Who's in charge if everyone is a Lt.? Unless left in charge by a superior officer, it goes by seniority or effective service date.

 

[Poltargyst]

For the dishonor of what I consider the worst episode to be, the fuck it doesn't. "Plato's Stepchildren" most certainly does hold that dishonor.

With episodes like Alternative Factor, And the Children Shall Lead, The Lights of Zetar around, no, Plato's Stepchildren is not the fuck the worst episode.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

With episodes like Alternative Factor, And the Children Shall Lead, The Lights of Zetar around, no, Plato's Stepchildren is not the fuck the worst episode.

Look, I said what I considered it to be, period. You're entitled to your own opinion of course, but if you're going to quote my post where I say what I think to be the worst and try to contradict my statement of opinion, when all I'm saying in the first place is what my personal opinion is, well, that's just not going to work.

 

[johnnybear]

The Zetarian life forces were seeking a being that could house their life forces and let them live out their lives cut short by a terrible disaster long ago! The difference here is that they were not single minds but a group of minds forced together after the destruction of their planet! They were I'd say a Gestalt but one that was willing to do anything to live a complete life! Murder, sabotage and forceful possession were not outside their quest for acceptance!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Plato's Stepchildren was banned in the UK for many years! Surely that is evidence enough that it's a stinker, Polty?
Kirk and Spock's humiliation at the hands of the Platonians is not nice to watch and equally embarrassing too for the casual viewer to not like the series either! All I ever read on here is how much hatred is directed towards And The Children shall Lead which I think is an okay episode. Nothing great just okay. But Plato which is really bad is free from attack? I can understand why you like it and I don't miss it out of a rewatch either but you should accept what we feel is a legitimate point!
JB

 

[Pauln6]

McCoy is a section head and people report to him. He is in command over these people, but he cannot command a starship. When Spock turned himself over for mutiny (a personnel matter), he surrendered to McCoy because he was the highest ranking officer, but McCoy did not take command of the ship. Also, due to his rank (Lt. Cmd), he does not report to Spock (Cmd), he reports directly to the Captain, but if Spock is left in command of the ship and the Captain is not around, then Spock can give him orders.

Who's in charge if everyone is a Lt.? Unless left in charge by a superior officer, it goes by seniority or effective service date.

But if it was as simple as seniority, McCoy COULD take command. Is it just that he wouldn't want to? If he is in command, he could delegate command of the ship to a junior officer after all.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

But if it was as simple as seniority, McCoy COULD take command. Is it just that he wouldn't want to? If he is in command, he could delegate command of the ship to a junior officer after all.

McCoy is the ship's doctor, not an officer of the line:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Officer_of_the_line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_officer

That thing with Beverly Crusher taking command of the ship in TNG, that was probably bullcrap. I've never been in the Navy, but I have to imagine that commanding a capital ship is not something its chief medical officer would ever do.

 

[Commishsleer]

The first science fiction book I ever read was about a ship's doctor taking command of the space passenger ship when all the other officers had been killed on the bridge when it was destroyed. Only he and the chief engineer and all the passengers made it. And the engineer said he was too busy pasting the ship together to be in "command".

While this was the book that lead me into the murky world of scifi from which I have never left I believe that the ship's doctor would never be in command (especially of a battleship) unless every other officer of the line was dead or disabled
Unless they had been trained in battle tactics and being CMO was a part time job. Surely they must have had to pass some command courses at the Academy. You know where Kirk said he would not submit to torture because of his "command training"

 

[Pauln6]

McCoy is the ship's doctor, not an officer of the line:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Officer_of_the_line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_officer

That thing with Beverly Crusher taking command of the ship in TNG, that was probably bullcrap. I've never been in the Navy, but I have to imagine that commanding a capital ship is not something its chief medical officer would ever do.

But the issue is more, what constitutes a line officer if Starfleet is allegedly not purely military? We see engineers like Scotty and Logan in TNG who are clearly line officers plus Spock who has always been a scientist. The command test to allow non-line officers to command the bridge is bunkum for sure; any officer should be trained for command, including ongoing training periodically. Similarly, requiring a command test to achieve the rank of Commander seems silly. I can't see McCoy wanting to take such a test to gain in rank, and he became an Admiral. There might be a mechanism by which non line officers gain recognition for command training but you would have thought that they would wear something extra on their rank insignia so that a junior or equivalent rank officer could see instantly that this person is qualified to take charge.

 

[Commishsleer]

To have McCoy being in command in a battle situation would be like Kirk doing surgery after having done a first aid course.
And as you say you would have to have training periodically like Kirk mentioned he'd read about the cold restart in "The Naked Time". Would McCoy have time to read articles like that when surely he'd need to be keeping up to date with medical stuff? Would he have the conviction/experience to press Spock to try it?

 

[johnnybear]

As much as we like him, McCoy is the one Doctor I couldn't see running the Enterprise I'm sad to say!
JB

 

[Pauln6]

As much as we like him, McCoy is the one Doctor I couldn't see running the Enterprise I'm sad to say!
JB

I think the wagon train to the stars vibe of TOS suggested that there was a shortage of people willing to undertake 5 year deep space missions. You have Bailey and Mira (among others) cracking up, you have Chapel signing up on the spur of the moment because the ship was en route to Exo III, you have McCoy as a rather unprofessional 'old country doctor', and you have staffing problems on the refit in TMP.

None of this helps define who has the Stones or the training to be in command, and how everyone is aware of that, of course.

 

[The Old Mixer]

None of this helps define who has the Stones or the training to be in command

Now I need somebody to make me a photoshop of Mick in a gold/green tunic!

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[Pauln6]

Now I need somebody to make me a photoshop of Mick in a gold/green tunic!

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I wondered if the auto correct would elicit a response like this. Glad to see I'm disappointed :-D

 

[Discofan]

Plato's Stepchildren is one of the best TOS episode.
Zetar one of the worst. Because its a bit boring - nothing else that's that bad. I still will watch it.

It's funny how opinions diverge! To me Plato's..., is one of the worst episodes ever, not only of TOS but of the franchise. I haven't watched it in years and yet I still get visual PTSD from it. I feel like the veteran of an audiovisual war.