50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread

[wayne66]

I've never heard anyone mention "the Tahiti syndrome" outside of this episode.



There's no families on board in TOS, in fact they've established that...
Space ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no one there to raise them if you did

My idea would have had that Miramanee and child would have been taken back to earth and live at Kirk's home on earth. Kirk would have somebody to come home to after the five year mission. Perhaps, he would not have wanted to get back "out there" Maybe he could have been a family man. Were Kirk's parents still alive at this point? She could have lived with them and Kirk's nephew/nephews. Perhaps Carol would let David come over and visit his step-sibling. One big happy non-nuclear family.

 

[dahj]

"And the Children Shall Lead", Episode 59, October 11th

Tonight's Episode: The kids aren't alright.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I've never heard anyone mention "the Tahiti syndrome" outside of this episode.

Was it a 60's psychological/military term that never made it into the vernacular? Or when he says it originated in the 20th century, does he maybe mean later than the 60s (a term not invented yet IRL, but ostensibly in the 70s/80s/90s)

 

[dahj]

Was it a 60's psychological/military term that never made it into the vernacular? Or when he says it originated in the 20th century, does he maybe mean later than the 60s (a term not invented yet IRL, but ostensibly in the 70s/80s/90s)

Even googling it only turns up Star trek related stuff, so if it was ever in use it was way before google could index it

Also, "paradise syndrome" apparently refers to a feeling of dissatisfaction after achieving all of ones dreams, and not like in this episode, a yearning for simpler life away from one's duties that affects "over-pressured leader types."

 

[Discofan]

Personally, I think that the title "Paradise Syndrome" is a bit obscure. I don't see how it is relevant to the story itself.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Star Trek
"And the Children Shall Lead"
Originally aired October 11, 1968
Stardate 5029.5

The Enterprise travels to a planet where a scientific team has killed themselves except for the children, who began to act oddly.

What was going on the week the episode aired.

They really were getting cheap this season--note how they don't even beam down more landing party members to dig the graves!

Was peach ice cream a thing in the '60s? Think I came across another reference to it in a recently watched period program. Don't know if or when I've ever seen or had it, though...maybe I just never noticed it.

Kirk never touches his ice cream.

Other than the Chapel scene, the episode does leave you wondering who's watching the kids before they start taking over. They just throw a bunch of orphaned kids in a rec room with a guard outside the door...?

One thing I always liked about this deservedly maligned episode was the transporter incident...pretty horrific, unknowingly beaming a couple of crewmen to their deaths. Of course, somebody always points out that they also never bothered to go back and pick up the two that were already on the planet....

So does Uhura always have a mirror occupying such a conspicuous place at her station?

For what it's worth, I find this one...a little painful, but not completely unwatchable. It's at its cheesiest when they fill time by recycling through everyone's delusions on the bridge, complete with musical cues.

Next week:

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Even googling it only turns up Star trek related stuff

I found one reference that doesn't seem to be Trek-related, though perhaps the author's a fan who didn't do his homework:
Google Books link

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Huh. You'd think if it was referred to as such often, there'd be more than one reference.

"And The Children Shall Lead"

I wondered once if chocolate wobble was in fact supposed to be marble upon viewing this. (See the flavor's MA talk page for the discussion that ensued.)

Kirk never touches his ice cream.

Yeah, the point wasn't really about eating, it was about bonding with the kids and trying to connect with them to do a soft interrogation as to what really happened down there.

They just throw a bunch of orphaned kids in a rec room with a guard outside the door...?

Generally, they don't transport young children without their parents aboard to watch them, the exception being poor Peter Kirk. Charlie would have been old enough to amuse himself, but still, if he had been living all alone like they first believed, his social skills would have been severely lacking, limited to imaginary friends and pet rocks.

So does Uhura always have a mirror occupying such a conspicuous place at her station?

Maybe we should have a list of bridge additions that disappear after one episode. It might have served some technical purpose usually, or perhaps she had been practicing lip reading. It might be handy to have mirrors on the bridge in case you need to keep an eye out the viewscreen but want to monitor someone else's condition too.

 

[Commishsleer]

People ALWAYS quibble with the science in TPS. I find it a compelling, touching story, and the unusual story structure taking place over months is fascinating. I just don't care about the exact speed of the asteroid.

While I agree that I just accepted the speed of the asteroid was valid when I watched the episode the first couple of times, I had more problems believing Spock would just leave Kirk alone undefended on the planet and that Spock's calculations about destroying the asteroid were incorrect.

 

[Tallguy]

It's like those mirrors people have on their screens to see if someone is looking over their shoulder. Star Trek was truly ahead of its time!

 

[Discofan]

...
Maybe we should have a list of bridge additions that disappear after one episode. It might have served some technical purpose usually, or perhaps she had been practicing lip reading. It might be handy to have mirrors on the bridge in case you need to keep an eye out the viewscreen but want to monitor someone else's condition too.

Or maybe someone on the Bridge is really vain about his looks...

 

[omnirad]

What a shame an original score was wasted on this dog of an episode. 'Ring around the rosey', indeed. The hand wank DUNT-DUUNT is lame too. Did any of this score get used in future episodes, or was it better left in the Gorgan's grave yard?

 

[alchemist]

According to the final draft script (June 21, 1968), Tommy replaced Uhura's radio equipment with a series of mirrors.

 

[GNDN18]

Christ, of all the episodes that I feel compelled to defend. Not the episode, mind you—it’s craptacular in its ineptitude—but this mirror thing was done right.

As you can see, the mirror isn’t present in the two-shot with Kirk. Much as only Sulu could see the swords (Swords. Not a wormhole or an asteroid belt, but swords. Nice.), so too could only Uhura see the demonic looking glass.

Still craptastic, even with this uncharacteristic attention to detail.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If the mirror was part of the illusion, they didn't do a good job of conveying that. It's there before the fist-pump. OTOH, when the illusion is lifted, Uhura's feeling her face, not looking in the mirror.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What a shame an original score was wasted on this dog of an episode. 'Ring around the rosey', indeed. The hand wank DUNT-DUUNT is lame too. Did any of this score get used in future episodes, or was it better left in the Gorgan's grave yard?

On one level I agree with you, but war game it: if this episode had been tracked with existing Star Trek music, they would have gone back to "The Man Trap" and "Where No Man" for the series' creepiest cues, and then sullied one of our cherished love themes, probably "Metamorphosis," for the resolution.

Sure, it wouldn't matter too much if the low water mark of the series seemed even more sloppy because its music didn't nail the situation, but to put a stink on fantastic pre-existing music by forever associating it with Tommy and the Gorgon? That would be unforgiveable. In my view, that would be lasting harm.

I think the episode got an original score because the music editor didn't have any kiddie-horror music in his quiver. And they wanted the score to "mickey mouse" the action when Tommy thrusts his fist up and down, so people watching it over the evening paper would look up and see that something was happening. As the Sinatras would say, something stupid.

 

[omnirad]

Other than the Chapel scene, the episode does leave you wondering who's watching the kids before they start taking over. They just throw a bunch of orphaned kids in a rec room with a guard outside the door...?

Not to project a TNG ship's counselor onto TOS, but if ever there was a time for a psychologist with PTSD training to appear, it was now. Helen Noel, or a Dr. Dehner type may have fit the bill. These kids just had the most traumatic experience a child could have, the death of BOTH parents, and they are acting totally detached from the situation. To give them a bowl of ice cream, and then to send them off by them selves is a case of major malpractrice by McCoy, and negligence of duty by Kirk. The lack of other specialized crew members is a real drawback in the third season.
Freddie F. was on board to keep the budget down, logic be damned, and boy, does it show.

 

[GNDN18]

If the mirror was part of the illusion, they didn't do a good job of conveying that. It's there before the fist-pump. OTOH, when the illusion is lifted, Uhura's feeling her face, not looking in the mirror.

I remember when I was a wee fencer I wondered “Why in the world would Lieutenant Uhura have a mirror at her station?“ So, I feel you.

In my defense, I said they got it right; I didn’t say they did it well.

 

[johnnybear]

A beautiful woman needs to be on top of her game! Simple!
JB

 

[Discofan]

According to the final draft script (June 21, 1968), Tommy replaced Uhura's radio equipment with a series of mirrors.

Smart kid.

 

[johnnybear]

I don't see this episode as a stinker to be honest! I thought it was quite sad at the end where the children realise what Gorgon made them do and how they've lost their parents! Wish we'd have heard more about these marauders from Epsilon Indi though!
JB