50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread

[omnirad]

The jail break scene at the end, with our trio fighting for their lives against superior numbers, getting pinned in a corner, is still quite exciting. When Merikus pulls out the purloined communicator and tells the ship to beam three aboard, and quickly gets stabbed in the back by the catty Pro Consul, it's a big 'whoa!' moment. Then the guards open fire with their machine guns as the Enterprise men dissolve into transporter sparkles. Bread and Circuses has one of the best climaxes ever, in any show, Trek, or television in general. Exciting!

 

[The Old Mixer]

The TOS-R version doesn't hit its 50th anniversary for another 39 years.

_______

Star Trek
"Bread and Circuses"
Originally aired March 15, 1968
Stardate 4040.7

The Enterprise encounters a planet whose culture is patterned on ancient Rome and holds gladiatorial games that Kirk, Spock and McCoy must fight in.

What was going on the week the episode aired.

I noted the more obvious similarity of last week's episode to 2001; here, people from a spacefaring civilization being treated as "barbarians" on a backward planet reminds me a bit more subtly of Planet of the Apes, which is coming to theaters the same week. The guard recognizing Spock as a barbarian suggests Vulcans or other aliens on the Beagle...yet the Proconsul has only heard of Vulcans, never seen one. The episode handwaves away the Proconsul's motives with all that jazz about not wanting to imbalance their well-ordered, peaceful society, but it seems shortsighted that he has a warp-driven starship in orbit with transporters and a supply of hand phasers, and he just wants to lure down the crew to die in his games. And the Proconsul references his world's combined armies...if they've had no war in 400 years, why do they have standing armies?

If Kirk & crew are so expositorily concerned about the Prime Directive, why didn't they at least disguise themselves, instead of coming down in their colorful Starfleet uniforms brandishing their more obvious variety of ray gun? And yeah, they also proceed to go out of their way to demonstrate that they're more advanced, even while being coy about what kind of ship they have.

How would modern English have become the dominant language in a Rome-ruled history? That doesn't even make sense by the already spotty standards of the parallel planet gimmick.

Apparently there was a more direct Roman sun god than Apollo, but a relatively obscure one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_(mythology)

The same episode that plays up McCoy as being melee-challenged in the arena makes a point of showing off his Bones Fu skills when they take out the guards in the cell.

I'd previously noted the general similarity of this episode to "Patterns of Force"...here, Merik playing up the idea that the Romans have always been the strongest particularly stood out.

"They threw me a few curves"...positively Bondian.

It's nice how they give Uhura the big reveal at the end even though she was barely in the episode.

In two weeks, the backdoor-piloty season finale:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

_______

 

[scotpens]

Historically wars have been the time where everyone realizes you can't be too fussy and there can be effective alternate paths to utilize or develop the needed skills. The Naval Academy supplied less than 1% of US Navy officers in WW2.

Even today, in peacetime, only about 20% of the U.S. military's commissioned officers are graduates of the official service academies. The rest are from ROTC and Officer Candidate School.

 

[dahj]

It's nice how they give Uhura the big reveal at the end even though she was barely in the episode.

Who knew that monitoring the planet's communications is a better way to find stuff out than randomly beaming down in the middle of nowhere and hoping that the nearby first citizen is the guy you're looking for...

 

[Poltargyst]

Oh, yes it is.
View attachment 4210
At least if you were raised with a steady diet of films made under the Hays/Breen Production Code.

I see what you're saying, but next time we see Kirk he's sleeping alone fully dressed.

 

[Poltargyst]

I'm thinking more about this Prime Directive thing. So now a Captain is supposed to sacrifice his own life, his ship, the lives of his crew rather than interfere with a civilization's natural evolution. So in The Apple, Kirk and Scotty were supposed to LET the Enterprise burn up.

Kirk: Sorry, Scotty, I know you're headed for a horrible death, but don't do anything, we can't violate the Prime Directive. Been nice working with you!

Then the landing party could survive as best they could until they got shot by dart-shooting plants, blown up by explosive rocks, blasted by lightning from Vaal, or brained by the natives. I think that's really stupid. In Bread and Circuses, they knew everyone would be thinking "why don't they just beam down a team armed with phasers and solve the whole thing?" So they give us this "you have to die rather than interfere" baloney for the sake of drama.

And how big a deal is it anyway for a native to see a Vulcan's pointed ears or see someone fire a phaser. If someone in modern day United States saw a Vulcan or a phaser fired, would it really change our whole society? Would that person even be believed?

 

[Tallguy]

I have a confession to make. I'm not as impressed by "TOS" as I used to be when I was a kid. I think I may have been spoiled by the 24th century shows - "TNG", "DS9" and "VOY".

After watching those series, it became easier for me to spot the serious flaws in "TOS". Don't get me wrong. It's a good series and it featured some top notch episodes. But my opinion of it as a whole is not as high as it used to be.

Well, if the later Trek's had stayed in the same direction as TOS, I'm sure I'd agree. The 60's production can be charming, sure. But the reason TOS is my Star Trek is because they never really did it again. TNG was Roddenberry's "more enlightened" re-assessment of Star Trek. And everything after was an answer to his answer. (The reason Star Trek: The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan are my Ultimate Star Treks are because they are super-fueled TOS with a budget.)

I'm thinking more about this Prime Directive thing. So now a Captain is supposed to sacrifice his own life, his ship, the lives of his crew rather than interfere with a civilization's natural evolution. So in The Apple, Kirk and Scotty were supposed to LET the Enterprise burn up.

Kirk: Sorry, Scotty, I know you're headed for a horrible death, but don't do anything, we can't violate the Prime Directive. Been nice working with you!

And how big a deal is it anyway for a native to see a Vulcan's pointed ears or see someone fire a phaser. If someone in modern day United States saw a Vulcan or a phaser fired, would it really change our whole society? Would that person even be believed?

That's the thing. We went from a reasonable "Don't mess with another civilization's natural course" to "It's better to let them all die (and us with them) than for them to even have a SIGHTING." Looking at YOU Into Darkness. AND several TNG episodes.

With The Apple, that's their out: The Enterprise was threatened. If it hadn't been for the jeopardy of the ship... Ah, Kirk would probably still have messed with them.

I hate PD stories even more than I hate holodeck stories.

Season Two ended in MARCH?!? That's MADNESS!

 

[dahj]

It's funny how everyone brought up how this civilization is similar to ancient Romans, but nobody mentioned how similar they are to current Romulans.

 

[Discofan]

It's funny how everyone brought up how this civilization is similar to ancient Romans, but nobody mentioned how similar they are to current Romulans.

Romulans were based on ancient Romans.

 

[UnknownSample]

They really shouldn't have added a second moon for Remastered. The only way that Hodgkin's (??) Theory of Parallel Planetary Development is supposed to work is when you have that insanely perfect situation, where ALL conditions start out *exactly* the same as they did on Earth. You just can't predict what small difference will throw things off. It could be anything. But they don't indicate that the geography is identical to Earth's, as it was in Miri.

 

[GNDN18]

But they don't indicate that the geography is identical to Earth's, as it was in Miri.

Different in shape, but the proportion of land to water was the same:

CHEKOV: Definitely class M, somewhat similar to Earth.
KIRK: Yes, similar. But the land masses and oceans are quite different, however.
SPOCK: Different in shape only, Captain. The proportion of land to water is exactly as on your Earth. Density five point five, diameter seven nine one seven at the equator, atmosphere seventy eight percent nitrogen, twenty one percent oxygen. Again, exactly like Earth.
KIRK: Exactly in some ways, different in others.

The script is silent as to any orbiting satellites.

 

[Poltargyst]

Well, if the later Trek's had stayed in the same direction as TOS, I'm sure I'd agree. The 60's production can be charming, sure. But the reason TOS is my Star Trek is because they never really did it again. TNG was Roddenberry's "more enlightened" re-assessment of Star Trek. And everything after was an answer to his answer. (The reason Star Trek: The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan are my Ultimate Star Treks are because they are super-fueled TOS with a budget.)


That's the thing. We went from a reasonable "Don't mess with another civilization's natural course" to "It's better to let them all die (and us with them) than for them to even have a SIGHTING." Looking at YOU Into Darkness. AND several TNG episodes.

With The Apple, that's their out: The Enterprise was threatened. If it hadn't been for the jeopardy of the ship... Ah, Kirk would probably still have messed with them.

I hate PD stories even more than I hate holodeck stories.

Season Two ended in MARCH?!? That's MADNESS!

I don't remember the episode, but I'm remembering an early TNG scene where they're sitting in the briefing room wringing their hands over whether to save this civilization from a natural disaster that's going to wipe them all out. WTF? Kirk would have already done it. This is why Kirk > Picard.

I'm wondering if it's actually irresponsible NOT to tell a primitive species what's what in the galaxy. So we find these people who haven't achieved warp drive yet, and we successfully study them without them knowing about us, and then we leave. And then some hostile race comes along and enslaves/kills them all. How exactly was that helpful? Seems better to come right out and tell them.

 

[GNDN18]

I'm wondering if it's actually irresponsible NOT to tell a primitive species what's what in the galaxy.

Suppose the cultural observation team is led by a John Gill, who mistakes a nascent dictatorship for a peaceful government and offers Federation technology or other assistance.

Consider what would have happened if an advanced civilization mistook our Hitler for a positive force for good. Look no further than American colonial pacifying influences on indigenous peoples.

The Prime Directive is a worthwhile conflict generator if only because it forces the viewer to look at the price of progress and the hubris of those who blunder blindly forth into the future.

 

[Poltargyst]

Maybe I'm talking about a middle ground. Tell them what's going on, but forbid interfering with them.

 

[GNDN18]

Maybe I'm talking about a middle ground. Tell them what's going on, but forbid interfering with them.

I don’t disagree. I found the PD episodes on VOY to be tedious; the TNG PE with Worf’s brother left me cold, too. TOS, at least, seemed to have the best dramatic success using this device, but it was certainly inconsistently applied.

It’s one of those tropes that should make sparks fly between characters, but often results in a legalistic jumble of meh.

 

[wayne66]

Bread and Circus is a fine episode to me. This episode has one of the best McCoy and Spock moments in the jail cell. This is where McCoy seems to have figured out Spock's secret. Spock does not want to slip up and show his emotions. One of my favorite scenes in the series. One of the things that bugged me about the episode was the numerous references to "20th century Rome" The crew of the Enterprise must have been experts about 20th century earth. Always making that reference.

 

[Maurice]

Romulans were based on ancient Romans.

They hadn't MET the Romulans yet, except for a brief silent glimpse of their bridge and then exchanging a few words before the Commander before he blew himself up.

 

[dahj]

Suppose the cultural observation team is led by a John Gill, who mistakes a nascent dictatorship for a peaceful government and offers Federation technology or other assistance.

That's the intent behind the Prime Directive, to prevent stuff like that, but in the 24th century shows it took on a rather rigid form where there can be absolutely no interference, under no circumstances whatsoever, which is pretty stupid. In fact Pen Pals, the one where Data has a friend on a planet that's about to blow up has that scene where they sit down, discuss just how fucking stupid it is and decide to do the right thing. Then by the time Worf's brother comes along they forget they ever had this discussion and they're back to "everyone MUST DIE!" again because Worf's brother isn't in the main cast so who cares about his friends...

 

[Roundabout]

"Bread and Circuses" is one of my favorite episodes. It was exciting. Plenty of action and just a fantastic story, the intersection of Trek and the Roman Empire. The sword fights, whether in the jail or in the faux arena, were great.

The proconsul was one of the better TOS villains. He had hubris and a sinister charisma. I loved how he mocked the prime directive. He had the upper hand and he knew it. The scene where he ordered Kirk to send down his men was well done. It was dramatic. Kirk had a dilemma. What was Kirk to do, order his crew down or watch Spock and McCoy be executed.

After Kirk ordered the condition green, Merik told Kirk that what Kirk did was stupid because it was the real deal and not some Academy training exercise.

That made me think of the Kirk's Kobayashi Maru test. I know it had nothing to do with the episode. Kirk doesn't believe in a no win situation. But just like with his Kobayashi Maru test, Kirk found a way (with Merik's help at the end) to win a no win situation.

 

[Discofan]

I for one Have never understood the use of the prime directive. If it's to prevent the exploitation of primitive people by more advanced cultures then I am all for it but it seems that more often than not it's just an excuse to do nothing while people are dying and it stinks.