50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
You cannot beat Kirk Fu.
Oh, I disagree wholeheartedly. In TOS, the Klingons were the backstabbing weasels. The Romulans had a sense of honor. Check Mark Lenard's Romulan commander. In TNG, suddenly the Klingons had honor, and the Romulans were the backstabbing weasels. I don't mind the changes they made to the Klingons as I found them mostly entertaining, but I always resented what they did to the Romulans.
"Balance of Terror" shows Lenard's commander to be somewhat out of step with what the Empire wants and at least the younger officers under his command. He's not necessarily typical of Romulans. And are Kor and Kang portrayed as any less honorable opponents than he is? When watching "Errand" this time, the Kirk/Kor interactions were very much giving me a vibe of "this is what it might have been like if Kirk and the Romulan commander had interacted face-to-face."
And it's well-known that "Errand" was originally written for the Romulans, and they created the Klingons so they could use cheaper make-up. I doubt that they decided to rewrite the script to make everyone less honorable and more backstabbing once that decision was made.
Also, I recall Lenard's commander talking a lot about duty, and in a jaded way...and some talk among the Romulan crew about glory...but did the word "honor" ever pass their lips? And if it did, was done so in any more specific way than a human might speak of honor?
And it's well-known that "Errand" was originally written for the Romulans, and they created the Klingons so they could use cheaper make-up. I doubt that they decided to rewrite the script to make everyone less honorable and more backstabbing once that decision was made.
Also, I recall Lenard's commander talking a lot about duty, and in a jaded way...and some talk among the Romulan crew about glory...but did the word "honor" ever pass their lips? And if it did, was done so in any more specific way than a human might speak of honor?
Well, your mileage obviously varies. I say throughout the course of TOS (in all two episodes in which we actually see them) we never see a Romulan lie. They are aggressive. They do their duty as their Emperor commands. They may never use the word honor, but it is their adherence to their duty even to the point of committing suicide that makes me feel they have honor. I don't see anything particularly duplicitous about any of the Romulans in TOS. From TNG on, I do not find the Romulans as having that same kind of honor.
Duty (to something/someone else, such as the state) and personal honor aren't necessarily the same thing. And on the subject of "Errand" Klingons being a substitute for the Romulans, compare the Romulans' value of duty established in "Balance" to this:
TNG-era Klingons...they're something else entirely, a third entity.
Duty to the state...the Romulans became the Klingons serving as Space Russians.Kor said:
TNG-era Klingons...they're something else entirely, a third entity.
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Errand of Mercy is one of my favorites. John Colicos is the perfect Klingon. He really chews the scenery. "Good honest hatred" I love how he says the word vegetable. I tend to say it just like him when I have vegetables. Very distinctive. John Abbott as the Organian leader is quite authoritative too. I like it when he asks KIrk if he is really defending the killing of billions of people and Kirk has to backtrack. This is such a great episode and McCoy is not even in it. I think this is the last episode that Deforest Kelley missed. He would be in all the rest of them.
Last week's other 50th Anniversary Viewings
_______
50 years ago this week:
New on the U.S. charts:
"My Back Pages," The Byrds
(#30 US; Written by Bob Dylan)
"Get Me to the World on Time," The Electric Prunes
(#27 US)
"You Got What It Takes," The Dave Clark Five
(#7 US; #28 UK; Cover of a song that was originally a hit for Marv Johnson in 1959)
"Somebody to Love," Jefferson Airplane
(#5 US; #274 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time)
And airing Thursday night:
Star Trek
"The Alternative Factor"
Stardate 3087.6
_______
50 years ago this week:
New on the U.S. charts:
"My Back Pages," The Byrds
(#30 US; Written by Bob Dylan)
"Get Me to the World on Time," The Electric Prunes
(#27 US)
"You Got What It Takes," The Dave Clark Five
(#7 US; #28 UK; Cover of a song that was originally a hit for Marv Johnson in 1959)
"Somebody to Love," Jefferson Airplane
(#5 US; #274 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time)
And airing Thursday night:
Star Trek
"The Alternative Factor"
Stardate 3087.6
MeTV said:
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Now if you could combine Bread with the Circus that might make a good episode of Star Trek perhaps?In case you don't know, Trek was preempted 50 years ago this week, instead you would have seen this:
I would have flipped over to another network. Just saying...
^ Sorry, Bread didn't have a hit single until 1970.
I like when Abbott as Ayelborne says to Kirk something along the lines of 'Your primitive impulses are extremely painful to us' and often find it jumps into my mind when interacting with others at work and while watching the news.
Will check out the vegetable pronunciation and try and work it into meal times and shopping.
Therefore they don't lie? Ever?
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They did sort of switch roles a bit, Klingons and Romulans. Let's keep in mind though that they're all vicious conquerors, and that "honor" thing is more of a conceit Klingons have about themselves.
It's night and day to me how Romulans are presented in TOS as opposed to TNG. I'm really surprised there's this much argument about it.
They're more appealing in TOS, and not necessarily any more devious than other villains. They had less of a negative feel to them than Klingons. Still subjugators though, still very violent. They were the bad guys, after all.
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What's night-and-day is the Klingons' attitude toward the Romulans, allies toward the end of TOS, sworn enemies by Next Gen. We get swept along by that, but we shouldn't be.
While it has been the widespread assumption going way back, TOS doesn't actually establish that Romulans and Klingons became allies...just that the Romulans started using Klingon designs. They could have stolen the designs, or the ships themselves, in conflict with the Klingons.
That actually goes along with an unused idea for "Balance of Terror," that the Romulan BOP was meant to have been based on stolen Federation tech, hence some visible design similarities.
That actually goes along with an unused idea for "Balance of Terror," that the Romulan BOP was meant to have been based on stolen Federation tech, hence some visible design similarities.
Errand of Mercy is fine, overall, but drags. Obviously Colicos is really good and the Kor/Kirk interplay comes across nicely. But it feels like there is way too much padding. I had completely forgotten that Kirk and Spock bomb the munitions depot, get caught, escape, and go on another tryst. Add in Kirk's repetitive convos with the Organians and it feels like this one would have been better in a 30-minute or 45-minute time slot.
Anytime I want to get bent out of shape about what TNG "did" to Romulans I have to remind myself that we only ever saw Romulans twice (three including TAS. I'm not counting Deadly Years.)
In BoT and The Practical Joker the Romulans initiate unprovoked sneak attacks. Of course, in The Enterprise Incident it's the Federation that is the aggressor.
In BoT and The Practical Joker the Romulans initiate unprovoked sneak attacks. Of course, in The Enterprise Incident it's the Federation that is the aggressor.
Of course the Romulans did bad things, they were bad guys. The question is were they presented as cool?
TOS Romulans: Cool.
TNG Romulans: Lame.
Although now that I think about it, it might just be that my opinion of the two shows in general is
TOS: Cool.
TNG: Lame.
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