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4 Clip descriptions from Empire *Spoiler heavy*

DeafPoet said:
The Wormhole said:
Chaos Descending said:
Huh? First contact between Cardassians and Starfleet was in the 22nd century.
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Huh? Where do you get that from? Although a date has neven been established for when contact between the Federation and Cardassians has been made, it's always been implied to be between TOS and TNG.
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Well I can't think of where you might be getting that implication from off the top of my head, but if you know please correct away. And since it hasn't been established that leaves it open for establishment, doesn't it? Besides, it's a throwaway line meant to appease us Trekkers rather than insult us. I'm inclined to believe good faith on the filmmakers' behalf rather than crucify them for it.
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Yeah, well, it insults me. Even IF Cardassians were known in the earlier part of the 23rd century, they'd be out on the edge of what the Federation knows, there most certainly aren't Cardassian DRINKS ON EARTH.

Seriously, why would they need to "appease" us Trekkers anyway? Appease implies they were already doing something that pissed us off, and now they have bring flowers. If it means brings smiles to us Trekkers, maybe they should assume that we know Star Trek inside and out, and not that we barely know anything, only a few names. Seriously, Andorian drinks, Bolian drinks, Caitian drink, whatever Federation member could have been used. But a drink from the ENEMY of the Federation in 24th century?

It's utterly ridiculous from beginning to end.
 
Why not? Those would probably travel more easily than actual Cardassians. Remember how we got silk out of China long before we got Chinese...

Timo Saloniemi
 
3D Master said:
Even IF Cardassians were known in the earlier part of the 23rd century, they'd be out on the edge of what the Federation knows
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As it has been said before, it was mentioned in DS9 that Dax met a Cardassian poet living on Vulcan on the 22nd century.
If one Cardassian was living on a fed world why not more ? Why not some on Earth itself ?


there most certainly aren't Cardassian DRINKS ON EARTH.
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You've checked 23rd century Earth bars ? Awesome...

Tell us some of the stuff one can find there. Any good drinks ?
 
DeafPoet said:
Rat Boy said:
Man, you'd think Scotty offing Porthos would have raised more eyebrows than a friggin drink.
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Even though I don't personally give a shit about the drink "violation," I think the Porthos thing is not raising eyebrows because:

1) It's not a canon violation (well, okay it is but that's super nitpicky.)

and

2) It's funny as hell :lol:
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Not really. What is that, Porthos X? Or do dogs live to be over a century old as well? I find it utterly ridiculous. I don't think Archer should still be alive, (actually I don't think he ever should be alive) but the ffing DOG!?

SalvorHardin said:
3D Master said:
Even IF Cardassians were known in the earlier part of the 23rd century, they'd be out on the edge of what the Federation knows
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As it has been said before, it was mentioned in DS9 that Dax met a Cardassian poet living on Vulcan on the 22nd century.
If one Cardassian was living on a fed world why not more ? Why not some on Earth itself ?
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Doesn't matter. The Cardassians would still be obscure; they wouldn't be all over the place.

there most certainly aren't Cardassian DRINKS ON EARTH.
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You've checked 23rd century Earth bars ? Awesome...

Tell us some of the stuff one can find there. Any good drinks ?
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No, but I can infer from what can and can't be there. Cardassian Drinks can NOT be there.
 
As it has been said before, it was mentioned in DS9 that Dax met a Cardassian poet living on Vulcan on the 22nd century.
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To be sure, he appeared to be there seeking political asylum. As the Vulcans granted it, perhaps they also agreed not to make the poet's presence public knowledge? They were very accommodating to Kirk and his fellow hunted criminals in ST3/4...

In general, though, nothing in DS9 or TNG would require us to think that Cardassians are recent players in the starhopping business, or a particularly secretive bunch, or anything. Which would mean that they would probably be first encountered by Archer already; not that our bumbling heroes would necessarily find them, but they would probably find us, automatically, as Earth became a member of the so-called "interstellar community".

Timo Saloniemi
 
If the purpose was just to be clever, Uhura could've ordered a Finagle's folly, for that matter. She even could have ordered a raktajino as a nod to fans of DS9 (if people in that century would drink the "enemy's" coffee).

Let me come out of left field on this. The writers are smart and know Trek. The fans are too smart for their own good, and little gets by them. Could it be, could it be, that the drink she so casually orders is a signal to sharp fans that something is "off?" I mean, something is off, after all. And, the scene obviously takes place after Nero created his first mischief, so who knows? Cardassians could be very well known in the world/timeline we're seeing.
 
Rat Boy said:
Additionally, some are raising eyebrows over Uhura ordering Cardassian ale, again assuming that the Federation had zero contact with them up until the 24th Century. The fact that she's ordering said drink doesn't necessarily mean that the Federation's run into them yet; after all, an Orion once served Archer a Gorn beverage a century before Kirk first encountered them in "Arena." Plus, there is the mention from DS9 of a Cardassian living on Vulcan a century before TOS, so the reference doesn't constitute a canon violation.
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Wrong. She's ordering a Cardassian drink in an obscure Iowan bar. Not somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, but a bar on EARTH, in some obscure Iowan town.

That implies a level of contact and trade between Cardassia and the Federation that is similar to the US and CANADA.

If she ordered it somewhere on the fringes of nowhere near Cardassia, fine. But this is a bar on EARTH. And although Cardassians are known in the 23rd century, there is no way in hell they're the US and Canada.

Now, what has raised a few eyebrows is the Enterprise and Pike's command of it in the film. Since the teaser was released, many have railed against the ship being constructed on Earth, however there's nothing in the canon that suggests that it could have been. The ship has been shown to manuever in an atmosphere before in TOS and while it can't land (as explicitly stated by Kirk in "A Piece of the Action"), that doesn't mean it couldn't have been launched from a planetside dock.
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No, it's not because of canon that that is railed again, but because it's STUPID, and technologically, and scientifically RIDICULOUS.

The Apollo was launched from the Earth but couldn't land on Earth like the space shuttle orbiter does now.
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Which has nothing to do starship building.

Then there's Pike and the apparent lack of Captain April. April's only appearance outside of reference books and novels was in the animated series, a production whose status in the canon has gone back and forth repeatedly in the eyes of the studio for years. If the animated series is no longer canon (and a lot of it runs up against later live action works), then so too goes April. Unfortunate, perhaps, but in the grand Trek pantheon, he was only a minor character on a show most people with a vague understanding of Trek never even watched, let alone heard of.
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They should have had Admiral April's dog, instead of Archer's.

Timo said:
Why not? Those would probably travel more easily than actual Cardassians. Remember how we got silk out of China long before we got Chinese...
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You think the stuff they got from China could be found in some obscure little bar? What we got from China were LUXURY items, only the filthy rich could afford, and you could only find in those places.

For it to be sold in some bar, in an out of the way town in Iowa, it would require US to Canada level of trade and knowledge of each other.
 
An odd homage to TOS?

-- In the drill scene, they can't use the transporter, so they have to attempt the risky shuttle jump.
-- In the ice planet scene, in order to be able to use the transporter, they have to invent new technology on the spot. (Mr. Scott's first miracle?)

Damned unreliable technology, that transporter. Can't count on it. Not even in Abrams's Trek.
 
3D Master said:
For it to be sold in some bar, in an out of the way town in Iowa, it would require US to Canada level of trade and knowledge of each other.
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Or maybe it just requires some guy who discovered it on a remote outpost, really liked it and started producing and selling a knock-off on earth.

But seriously, why do you care? It's just a stupid drink, this whole dispute is the reason people point and laugh at us.
 
3D Master said:
Rat Boy said:
Additionally, some are raising eyebrows over Uhura ordering Cardassian ale, again assuming that the Federation had zero contact with them up until the 24th Century. The fact that she's ordering said drink doesn't necessarily mean that the Federation's run into them yet; after all, an Orion once served Archer a Gorn beverage a century before Kirk first encountered them in "Arena." Plus, there is the mention from DS9 of a Cardassian living on Vulcan a century before TOS, so the reference doesn't constitute a canon violation.
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Wrong. She's ordering a Cardassian drink in an obscure Iowan bar. Not somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, but a bar on EARTH, in some obscure Iowan town.

That implies a level of contact and trade between Cardassia and the Federation that is similar to the US and CANADA.

If she ordered it somewhere on the fringes of nowhere near Cardassia, fine. But this is a bar on EARTH. And although Cardassians are known in the 23rd century, there is no way in hell they're the US and Canada.

Timo said:
Why not? Those would probably travel more easily than actual Cardassians. Remember how we got silk out of China long before we got Chinese...
Click to expand...

You think the stuff they got from China could be found in some obscure little bar? What we got from China were LUXURY items, only the filthy rich could afford, and you could only find in those places.

For it to be sold in some bar, in an out of the way town in Iowa, it would require US to Canada level of trade and knowledge of each other.
Click to expand...
Seeing how it's an obscure little bar that Starfleet cadets (and even a Starfleet captain) visit, is it really all that unreasonable to assume that traders drop stuff off in that area? Further, if a bar tender/ supplier thinks that a specific drink will sell big, is it all that unreasonable to assume they will put an effort into getting more of that drink sent to them? Further still, it's just a drink. Is it all that unreasonable to go, "Haha, they said Cardassian!" and move on with the rest of the movie?
 
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