• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

32X13 The Wedding of River Song (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS

What did you think of "The Wedding of River Song"?


  • Total voters
    176
First off, the teaser. That was one of the nuttiest intros to an episode of any show ever. I laughed quite immoderately.

Surprised no one picked up on the scruffy bearded Doctor of TIA (well, part 2), was almost the same as the scruffy bearded Doctor of the last episode. And Area 51 at the beginning, to Area 52 (in the pyramid) at the end. And the cameos from Dickens and Churchill were great and put it right in context.

It explained enough to be going on with, but nowhere near enough about the Pandorica and that ilk. And why did the Silence need mankind ot go to the Moon?

The whole taking of River thing is still a bit confusing, partly because the Silence must have time travel - indeed, we've seen their ship. So they could have intervened anywhere, and when Melody was born, put the child back in the orphanage... where Amy met her in the spacesuit. And Ganger Amy was carried back from the future too. Wow, that's convoluted. I really, really want him to wrap it up at the end of next year. I don't know if I want this to drag on much longer.

Oh, and Amy putting the patch back on Madame K? I have zero problem with that.

Yeah, Moffat does fudge the truth a bit, maybe in part to mislead us, but it's a hell of a ride. More thoughts later.

Roll on Xmas!
 
Last edited:
What happened to Canton though? Why was he invited along? Why was it him who was there to insist it really was the Doctor and he really was dead?
Canton was there instead of the Brig, who presumably would have received the fourth envelope.

That's an interesting theory. I just assumed it was to give everyone in the past the clue of where they needed to go (i.e., the White House to find Delaware).
 
It dawned on me how utterly pointless about half of the episode was.

If River hadn't fought her programming, she would have shot the robot Doctor and everything would have been fine and gone according to the Doctor's plan. Instead, we got a runaround that didn't actually do anything to advance the plot and where nothing that happened had any lasting effect except maybe the Doctor and River crossing a threshold in their relationship. Yes, it was fun to watch, but it was also twenty-odd minutes of the writer wasting the audience's time. And I can't even figure out how alt-River fights against real-River fighting against her programming to fix everything -- but that's a different problem.

In short, it's a straw man plot. Bad Moffat.
 
So after wondering about the usual Doctor silly stuff I have come up with this early theory about The Silence and the first question. I am not taking the question as meaning what is the Doctors name or even what is his nature. No I believe that the Doctor is going to borrow the Silences ability to be forgotten when he is out of sight. If there is a technology to see the silence it can be reversed and applied to make someone else disappear. Maybe the Tardis will generate the effect which will allow people to see him for the duration of an adventure and then forget him. So do you remember the Doctor? Doctor Who? And this will also allow the Doctor to stay virtually dead to the universe. This will of course annoy the Silence more so if he goes and steals the technology from them and is the one who will defeat them time and time again. Which is the reason they will want to kill him. Oh and of course the companions will be protected from the effect as long as they are with him and then they too will forget the Doctor.
 
I tend to agree that the episode felt mostly pointless. Fun? Sure. Entertaining? Absolutely. Still, a wasted opportunity. I am also finding a pattern in that Matt Smith is a lot more fun to watch when an episode is written by anyone other than Moffat. In those episodes he seems to just be The Doctor through and through and I am constantly amazed at how much I can believe that this is a nigh-immortal time-traveling alien I am watching. The last few episodes have been perfect examples of this. Perhaps Moffat is more insistent that his scripts be played exactly and limits the input of the actors and directors during filming. It just seems to me that his writing more often than the other writers seems to veer into a voice that doesn't feel like 11; his own voice perhaps.
 
There are a few bits in the show that makes me giggle even after several viewings:

"...needles on a broken record."
"record? good god man, haven't you ever heard of downloads?"
"so says Winsten Churchill"

"great wi-fi down here"

"let's go out for a drink"
"ok"
"then we should get married"
"fine"

"we got married, had a daughter and that's her"
"ok"

oh Rory, you are marvellous!


This episode got me go back and watched the Library two parter, and here's an interesting quote from River at the end of that story:

"... Everybody knows everybody dies, and nobody knows it better than The Doctor. But I do know that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment accepts it."

While that might be a precursor to the end of that story where he can write "everybody knows everybody dies, but not some days, not today. ...... Now and then, every once in a while ... everybody lives." But I thought that first quote is a nice echo to this season.

Also, in Confidential for Forest, Moffat was talking about the Doctor's name, so he probably wanted to do this for a long time.


I am, however, VERY happy that it appears Amy's "departure" was just one of Moffat's many misdirections. I would love to have her back for another run, and the possibility of Rory only recurring excites me greatly.
I'm guessing the Ponds departure was a real departure, and what we'll get next year will be small cameos of them. I'm fine with that, I think what we got at the end of The God Complex was a great ending to that travelling group.
 
I've always thought that the secret of the Doctor's name was something that needed to play a larger role in the show -- I mean, it's right there in the title, for goodness' sake -- so I liked that being the question that will cause silence to fall.

"Doctor who?"
 
So after wondering about the usual Doctor silly stuff I have come up with this early theory about The Silence and the first question. I am not taking the question as meaning what is the Doctors name or even what is his nature. No I believe that the Doctor is going to borrow the Silences ability to be forgotten when he is out of sight. If there is a technology to see the silence it can be reversed and applied to make someone else disappear. Maybe the Tardis will generate the effect which will allow people to see him for the duration of an adventure and then forget him. So do you remember the Doctor? Doctor Who? And this will also allow the Doctor to stay virtually dead to the universe. This will of course annoy the Silence more so if he goes and steals the technology from them and is the one who will defeat them time and time again. Which is the reason they will want to kill him. Oh and of course the companions will be protected from the effect as long as they are with him and then they too will forget the Doctor.

I like this idea a lot.
 
Loved it. I for one will never get tired of these playful, inventive, time-twisty stories from Moffat. People can dismiss it as "fanwankery" if they want, but the difference between Moffat and those people is that he can actually write.

And while it was pretty obvious the Teselecta would be involved at the end, I can't say I was expecting the twist of having the Doctor inside one of those things. Awesome (and even trippier that he was apparently riding around in that thing for a looooong time).

It dawned on me how utterly pointless about half of the episode was.

If River hadn't fought her programming, she would have shot the robot Doctor and everything would have been fine and gone according to the Doctor's plan. Instead, we got a runaround that didn't actually do anything to advance the plot and where nothing that happened had any lasting effect except maybe the Doctor and River crossing a threshold in their relationship. Yes, it was fun to watch, but it was also twenty-odd minutes of the writer wasting the audience's time. And I can't even figure out how alt-River fights against real-River fighting against her programming to fix everything -- but that's a different problem.

In short, it's a straw man plot. Bad Moffat.

I don't know how it's a "runaround" if River is completely unaware of the Doctor's plan. She was simply doing her best to keep him alive, based on the information she had at the time.
 
I really, really liked it. The "obvious stuff" was well done, and won't be nearly as obvious to the general population fan as to those who sit on message boards everyday gathering every little piece of information they can get and comparing notes on a daily basis. nothing can be a surprise, yet still fall in with what's come before under those circumstances.

I was actually very surprised by River Song breaking her programming and trying to stop herself from killing the Doctor and screwing up time like that

I'm assuming, even the board members must've enjoyed the episode more than their posts indicate, because reading the posts, I would expect no more than 20% thought the show was above average or great, yet the poll shows almost 80% thought it was above average or great and 50% of the poll thinking it was great.
 
So, apparently, one can't change a fixed time event or time will become stuck. Yet, in The Waters of Mars, the Doctor changes a fixed time event, and time resets with the new changes and continues.

In two seasons of the Doctor fighting the Silence, I feel we are no closer to understanding them or their reasons for hating the Doctor. I say either flesh out this villain or drop them. I feel that Doctor Who shouldn't be Lost or Terra Nova or any other of those sci-fi shows with a mysterious villain who is involved in a conspiracy. Doctor Who should be Doctor Who, period.
 
The fixed point in time there was a death. That death still happened. Admittedly in different circumstances, but close enough to keep the chain of events the same. Likewise, here, the fixed point was the believed death of the Doctor. The Doctor doesn't need to die for the events to continue, just go undercover.

As for the Silence's motivation, it seemed to be to prevent the Doctor from answering the question while in that place. The reason for that depends on what the consequences are. That's not something proper to reveal until you reach that point. We know what their overall goal appears to be at least.
 
I really liked it. There is a slight continuity error I couldn't help noticing though. The Doctor's hair is slightly longer in this episode than it was in The Impossible Astronaut. This could have been easily avoided if the two episodes had ben filmed back to back instead of months apart. (Or if Matt Smith got a haircut) A minor observation however, I still thought is was brilliant and will undoubtably be watching it again before xmas. :D
 
So, apparently, one can't change a fixed time event or time will become stuck. Yet, in The Waters of Mars, the Doctor changes a fixed time event, and time resets with the new changes and continues.
It didn't happen next to a magic lake though.

And we're still no closer to learning who made the Silence's suits and how they put them on. And if they're a religious order and not a species, how come they're quite clearly a fucking species with the magic memory ability to boot?
 
The species are Silents, not Silence. They're just one of the species who're part of the order of the Silence...

Yeah, I know, it's a bit bollocks, but that's how it is.

We also don't know who's in charge- Kovarian seemed to be the Silents' boss, but since they were happy to kill her, who knows what the ranks really are...
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top