32X13 The Wedding of River Song (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS
- Thread starter Mitty
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Something that I was curious about thinking about this episode after two hours (or there abouts) was the scene where he was about to regenerate and then get's show again. Do Robots regenerate? I know one can't regenerate into the opposite sex, but it seems to me that that would be a bit difficult for a robotic doctor to regenerate, even if it was a good duplicate.
I do like the Ganger idea though.
I do like the Ganger idea though.
Well, Omega did appear in the tenth anniversary special and the twentieth season, so maybe he'll return in 2013.
As for the episode, I have to say that I'm unsurprised (if a little disappointed) that it was another apparent case of bait-and-switch. Once again logic gets sent packing, this time in a very conspicuous manner with all of that everything-happens-at-once rubbish. Once again, a lot of the episode's value is in the interactions of the main characters. Gillan and Darvill are on excellent form and the Doctor/River scenes were both convincing and touching. The reference to the Brigadier was a nice addition, too. However, due to the convoluted and nonsensical nature of the plot it's "too many eyepatches" from me.
Questions we're left with:
- Why did the Silence need River? Was it about creating a scenario where the Doctor couldn't save himself without unravelling history? Was the timey-wimey nature of their relationship therefore the Silence's idea or something that they exploited?
- What was the deal with the makeshift TARDIS or TARDISes and was the one in TIA designed for River to use? The Lodger one would kill a human and explode if used by the Doctor.
- How does anyone even know that Lake Silencio was a fixed point?
- Why was River blamed for the Doctor's death if she had been programmed to kill him? Is she basically in prison for failing to overcome her programming and save him?
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I loved it! Sure, there were some logical issues, and I saw the resolution from the beginning of the episode, but I had a lot of fun watching it, even after three viewings, so that's a fantastic from me.
I loved the scene about the Brig, made me tear up. What an absolutely brilliant tribute to Nick, I can't think of any other character/actor in any other show getting a treatment like it.
All the returning faces were fantastic. Especially the Dickens' scene: so what's this year's Christmas special going to be like? LOL!
I loved the scene about the Brig, made me tear up. What an absolutely brilliant tribute to Nick, I can't think of any other character/actor in any other show getting a treatment like it.
All the returning faces were fantastic. Especially the Dickens' scene: so what's this year's Christmas special going to be like? LOL!
no Sherlock to fill the gap, the latest news is early 2012, maybe even as early as Jan.
Yes, I loved this ending as well, hopefully Moffat will keep to it next year, getting back to quieter, smaller adventures, not involving blowing up armies, or planets, or spacefleets. He might have to, considering he probably has less budget to play with (especially if he wants to save up some for the anniversary), which I think shows he's quite clever by steering the show towards smaller stories, planning it from the very beginning of this season.
I find it highly interesting that we've had two finales now under Moffat where someone or something has attempted to get rid of the Doctor. Last year it was the Alliance (we still don't know how they were organized) and now this time it is the Silence and the Brotherhood.
Excellent point about the smaller stories. Devious fellow, that Mr Moffat.
The IO9 review of the episode is up. I found it quite interesting.
The previously bit at the beginning that featured the teslecta pretty much gave it away in my view as to how the Doctor would get his way out of this one.
Still wondering why the Tardis exploded and even if this is answered later is it really relevant anymore?
The episode seems to be a rehash of last years finale in that the universe was slowly ending. I think the big plot points of this season weren't hidden so well. River is Amy and Rory's daughter. We guessed that. The Doctor that dies is either a ganger or a Robot. River kills the Doctor. Doctor Who. All these were speculated on already.
I wanna be truly surprised by some revelation.
With that said, the episode was good. It was interesting, at times funny, sad, touching. But so much was thrown in there for one episode.
Still wondering why the Tardis exploded and even if this is answered later is it really relevant anymore?
The episode seems to be a rehash of last years finale in that the universe was slowly ending. I think the big plot points of this season weren't hidden so well. River is Amy and Rory's daughter. We guessed that. The Doctor that dies is either a ganger or a Robot. River kills the Doctor. Doctor Who. All these were speculated on already.
I wanna be truly surprised by some revelation.
With that said, the episode was good. It was interesting, at times funny, sad, touching. But so much was thrown in there for one episode.
I believe Moffat's approach to DW is that it is a fairy tale in a techonological, sci-fi setting. A more accurate name would be the German Märchen roughly meaning "wonder tale". If true, I don't expect we're going to get perfectly logical stories that are all neatly tied up even at the end of Moffat's run. So let us either stop over analysing or go read grown-up S-F literature instead. 
From http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a209946/moffat-who-is-a-childrens-fairytale.html:
From http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a209946/moffat-who-is-a-childrens-fairytale.html:
Well, that was... crap. Definitely not a fan of Moffat's DW. I enjoyed the last few episodes this season. But they weren't written by Moffat. Funny that. Liked his work until he took over the show. Now, can't stand anything he pens.
So “the universe” in “the oldest question in the universe” is the Doctor Who universe? That's so meta. I honestly like self-references like that (or at least I did when I was 6). Part of me wishes to think that the Doctor knows he's fictional.
Having slept on it, a couple of other bits where what the finale tells us is totally nonsensical, even by fairytale rules.
The whole River kills the Doctor thing, for which she even does time (jailed by the people who had her do it!) when in fact she didn't. She was a passenger in the Silence-programmed suit.
And the Pond/Song family now think the Doctor's part of the family because river married the vehicle the Doctor was piloting. Is there a brain cell between them?
Of course, presumably the actual fixed point in time was that the Tesselecta had to be shot and burnt at Lake Silencio - which means they could have just done it in LKH and saved a lot of bother. It still means Moffat cheated the audience, though, by not playing within the boundaries he'd set up for them in TIA and the pre-season publicity.
Lest anybody think I didn't love it - cos I do have a lot of complaints - I don't think I've ever been so entertained by something so randomly hashed together.
Moffat may call his approach a fairytale, but it actually comes over more as a Looney Tunes cartoon. (This is not specifically a bad thing! though it can be.)
The whole River kills the Doctor thing, for which she even does time (jailed by the people who had her do it!) when in fact she didn't. She was a passenger in the Silence-programmed suit.
And the Pond/Song family now think the Doctor's part of the family because river married the vehicle the Doctor was piloting. Is there a brain cell between them?
Of course, presumably the actual fixed point in time was that the Tesselecta had to be shot and burnt at Lake Silencio - which means they could have just done it in LKH and saved a lot of bother. It still means Moffat cheated the audience, though, by not playing within the boundaries he'd set up for them in TIA and the pre-season publicity.
Lest anybody think I didn't love it - cos I do have a lot of complaints - I don't think I've ever been so entertained by something so randomly hashed together.
Moffat may call his approach a fairytale, but it actually comes over more as a Looney Tunes cartoon. (This is not specifically a bad thing! though it can be.)
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Loved it.
What happened to Canton though? Why was he invited along? Why was it him who was there to insist it really was the Doctor and he really was dead?
What happened to Canton though? Why was he invited along? Why was it him who was there to insist it really was the Doctor and he really was dead?
This was a great finale. Intense, moving, funny, insanely ambitious, with some great character moments and a million mad ideas. This is exactly why I love Doctor Who.
But she could overcome the programming if she wished, albeit at the cost of destroying cause and effect. Damned if she does; damned if she doesn't. Why they choose to keep her incarcerated in relative comfort in the least secure prison facility in the Universe is another matter.
But in a Cartesian Dualistic sense, you might argue that we're all piloting flesh and blood robots that are in themselves mindless.
Yeah, I think that's a good comparison - with the Doctor as the Road Runner. Meep meep.
Firstly, I love the options in this poll.
Secondly I am apparently the only person on the interwebz who had not guessed the question.
And finally I feel like the Doctor is the Deus of the Deus ex Machina of this episode and the whole season. And oddly that is both fitting and interesting.
Secondly I am apparently the only person on the interwebz who had not guessed the question.
And finally I feel like the Doctor is the Deus of the Deus ex Machina of this episode and the whole season. And oddly that is both fitting and interesting.
Except that a true deus ex machina is winched in at the end of the play to fix everything. The Doctor has been in plain sight all along.
Actually it needs a "what? What? WHAT?" option somewhere to the side of all the other choices...
The finale was ... interesting. I think overall I enjoyed it, but the explanation for why the Doctor needed to die was a complete cheat. In fact, I actually wonder if there was even a need for that plot to begin with. After an entire season of wondering what the repercussions could be, there apparently won't be any. This season definitely had too many gimmicky plot twists that didn't necessarily move the plot forward in a meaningful way. And while I think I would rate series six as a whole only slightly below series five (which is high praise) I preferred the simple yet elegant direction of Matt Smith's debut run.
I am, however, VERY happy that it appears Amy's "departure" was just one of Moffat's many misdirections. I would love to have her back for another run, and the possibility of Rory only recurring excites me greatly.
I am, however, VERY happy that it appears Amy's "departure" was just one of Moffat's many misdirections. I would love to have her back for another run, and the possibility of Rory only recurring excites me greatly.
Actually I just assumed he'd turned up at the scene of a prior battle between the Daleks and something else and found the Dalek in that state? That's how it read to me anyway.
Was she jailed by the people who had her do it? Even so it isn't like that doesn't make sense, throughout history there have been patsies used as the villain to throw the scent away from the actual villains.
Anyhoo, my take...
Liked it, didn't love it, sure as hell didn't hate it. I can understand people not liking it, but surprised how many people have said they were bored? Whatever else that was, it wasn't boring.
I think I need to watch it again to really process how it made me feel, cos right now I'm not sure I can accurately tell.
Was it a mess. Yes. Was it illogical in places. Yes. Was it still enjoyable. Yes!
The whole pretitle sequence was one of the most bonkers things I've ever seen on telly, and have to say that's what I love about Moffat's Who. Love it or hate it you really ain't seen anything like it!
Loved Dickens. Had chills running up my spine for the Brig bit (must have missed the Rose/Jack mentions) Like Amy with an eyepatch far too much! Loved River in this, and Rory was awesome! Grinned like an idiot when Amy came back for him. "We should go on a date...then get married"
Loved the look on Amy's face when she realised she was the Doctor's mother in law.
As for the Teselecta (sp?) well there had to be some get out, and actually of the three we were given this was the one I least expected at least.
Oh yeah, and a quick question for the B7 fans amongst you. Live Chess, a homage to Speed Chess? I kept expecting the Klute to show up
I forgot to mention that maybe my favorite scene of the episode (aside from Dorian yakking on about the question at the end) was Amy coming back for Rory and gunning down the Silence. Big action scene for Karen!! No doubt she enjoyed the hell out of it. I also absolutely adore Dorian! Too bad his head is cut off!
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