24: No Iranian Bad guys on TV allowed?

[Locutus of Bored]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

and yet they have no problem 'naming' the Russians or Chinese as bad guys. Its comical.

Not the "Russians," the Russian Mafia, which is a criminal organization with absolutely no redeeming qualities, so what would be the problem with using it?

Were the Chinese really all that bad in comparison to the US on the show? We invaded their embassy to kidnap someone and ended up killing one of their embassy staff. They kidnapped Jack, tortured him (which Jack and CTU do regularly), and put him in prison before trading him back to the US. Seems like a pretty fair exchange of bad deeds to me.

It's a little bit different between those examples and using a Middle Eastern or African country and actual problems which are relevant to today. In those cases they usually make up a fake country that's a composite of multiple countries in the region as a substitute.

The West Wing did use Qumar on a few occasions, which Aaron Sorkin is on record as regretting. On most other occasions, it used real countries.

And of course, who could forget the plight of Equatorial Kundu, which was a composite of Equatorial Guinea and Rwanda?

 

[RobertScorpio]

But the question is WHY? If they were government agencies, these studios, then yes. But the fact that none of these shows "finger" who they are talking about, makes me think that either the studios are under other pressures other than finanical. Because I argue if they did come right out and made IRAN the bad country, then more people would watch.

I think it is PC sensitivity.

Rob

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Because I argue if they did come right out and made IRAN the bad country, then more people would watch.

Yes, I'm sure there are millions of people just waiting by the TV for the moment '24' calls Iran by name to becomes fans of the show. Because that's important to telling the story.

On the grand list of frequently recurring '24' clichés, "The country who must not be named" is about #78, right after "You keep using the words 'airtight perimeter.' I don't think that means what you think it means" and right before "Bizarre computer GUIs."

 

[RobertScorpio]

Use all the gobble-dee-guck you want, as you just did, and you cant make an argument anyway if it would bring in more people or not. I say it would. You don't. But no matter, its a silly aspect of the show (not naming the bad guys). Right up there with the 'mole inside CTU' cliche they pull every year (this year with Starbuck)...

rob

 

[Caliburn24]

Don't antagonize potential friends.

We're hoping that a democratic mass movement sweeps across Iran and brings a moderate government into power. How much more difficult will that event be if the current Iranian government can point to American entertainment which vilifies Iranians?

We have many intelligence assets working towards the goal of a moderate Iran, and you would have that be jeopardized so that we can hear the word "Iran" on a fictional TV show?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Use all the gobble-dee-guck you want, as you just did, and you cant make an argument anyway if it would bring in more people or not. I say it would. You don't.

Explain the logic of how simply using real country names would bring in more viewers. Break it down for me. The only people I could see even caring that much about it to start watching purely because of such a minor change would be some Neocons, and I'm pretty sure they already get a hard-on from all the torture, manufactured threats, and the killing of brown people.

It could potentially piss off some fans and critics of the show, it can be made irrelevant by real world events, you can still picture it as being Iran if you want to, and it ultimately changes nothing about how you tell the story so it's completely unimportant.

Maybe it's drastically important in bad fanfic or something, but what positive difference would it being called Iran serve in this story? It's set in 2017-2019 or something, so it would be a fictional future Iran anyway.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Don't antagonize potential friends.

We're hoping that a democratic mass movement sweeps across Iran and brings a moderate government into power. How much more difficult will that event be if the current Iranian government can point to American entertainment which vilifies Iranians?

We have many intelligence assets working towards the goal of a moderate Iran, and you would have that be jeopardized so that we can hear the word "Iran" on a fictional TV show?

Iran hates us enough anyway. How could a TV show possibly make it any worse?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Iran hates us enough anyway. How could a TV show possibly make it any worse?

Because Iran is a country filled with tens of millions of people with different political beliefs and backgrounds and is not an easily classifiable monolithic groupmind?

 

[Marc]

Iran hates us enough anyway. How could a TV show possibly make it any worse?

Because Iran is a country filled with tens of millions of people with different political beliefs and backgrounds and is not an easily classifiable monolithic groupmind?

It also has a very large population under about 40 (they pretty much wiped out a generation fighting against Iraq) and those young people are generally well deposed towards western culture.

They'll be the ones who'll lead the overthrow of the mad mullahs so not denigrating the country is a good move.

Also look at the response after George W. Bush made his "axis of evil" comments - it played right into the hands of the regieme and they were able to use it for anti-U.S propaganda.

 

[Trekker4747]

Use all the gobble-dee-guck you want, as you just did, and you cant make an argument anyway if it would bring in more people or not. I say it would. You don't.

Explain the logic of how simply using real country names would bring in more viewers. Break it down for me. The only people I could see even caring that much about it to start watching purely because of such a minor change would be some Neocons, and I'm pretty sure they already get a hard-on from all the torture, manufactured threats, and the killing of brown people.

It could potentially piss off some fans and critics of the show, it can be made irrelevant by real world events, you can still picture it as being Iran if you want to, and it ultimately changes nothing about how you tell the story so it's completely unimportant.

Maybe it's drastically important in bad fanfic or something, but what positive difference would it being called Iran serve in this story? It's set in 2017-2019 or something, so it would be a fictional future Iran anyway.

It's currently "2015" in 24's universe.... Sorta.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I know they said that in some of the pre-show interviews as a sort of retcon, but I think that if you actually added up all the days, in-show time references, mentioned gaps in time, and when new presidents could take office that it would have to be at least 2017, IIRC.

Not that it really matters, because the showrunners say that '24' takes place in a "permanent now."

 

[Trekker4747]

I know they said that in some of the pre-show interviews as a sort of retcon, but I think that if you actually added up all the days, in-show time references, mentioned gaps in time, and when new presidents could take office that it would have to be at least 2017, IIRC.

Not that it really matters, because the showrunners say that '24' takes place in a "permanent now."

This is the timeline I have:

Season 1: "Super Tuesday" - March 2000
Season 2: 18 Months Later - September 2001
Season 3: Three Years Later - September 2004 (Presidential Debates)
Season 4: 18 Months Later - March 2006 (August 4th?)
Season 5: 18 Months Later - September 2007
Season 6: 20 Months Later - March/April 2009 (Early in W. Palmer's first term.)
Redemption: Four Years later - Inaguration Day: January 21, 2013
Season 7: 65 days after Inaguration Day - March 27, 2013
Season 8: Two Years Later - March 2015.

"Adjusted" since somewhere, recently, I heard S1 took place in 2000 and not 2004 as earlier suspected.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't watch 24 but the thread title caught my attention.

Iran hates us enough anyway. How could a TV show possibly make it any worse?

Because Iran is a country filled with tens of millions of people with different political beliefs and backgrounds and is not an easily classifiable monolithic groupmind?

It also has a very large population under about 40 (they pretty much wiped out a generation fighting against Iraq) and those young people are generally well deposed towards western culture.

They'll be the ones who'll lead the overthrow of the mad mullahs so not denigrating the country is a good move.

Also look at the response after George W. Bush made his "axis of evil" comments - it played right into the hands of the regieme and they were able to use it for anti-U.S propaganda.

I don't need to say anything especially when this sums up all of my thoughts.

 

[Star Wolf]

Use all the gobble-dee-guck you want, as you just did, and you cant make an argument anyway if it would bring in more people or not. I say it would. You don't.

Explain the logic of how simply using real country names would bring in more viewers. Break it down for me. The only people I could see even caring that much about it to start watching purely because of such a minor change would be some Neocons, and I'm pretty sure they already get a hard-on from all the torture, manufactured threats, and the killing of brown people.

It could potentially piss off some fans and critics of the show, it can be made irrelevant by real world events, you can still picture it as being Iran if you want to, and it ultimately changes nothing about how you tell the story so it's completely unimportant.

The Sum Of All Fears is the example TPTB probably lost more from Clancy fanatics then they picked up from Palistinian or Muslim apologist. That one act may have killed the Ryanverse.

Maybe it's drastically important in bad fanfic or something, but what positive difference would it being called Iran serve in this story? It's set in 2017-2019 or something, so it would be a fictional future Iran anyway.

Near future is hard I remember when the Berlin Wall fell an entire generation of techno-thrillers was made obsolete overnight.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The Sum Of All Fears is the example TPTB probably lost more from Clancy fanatics then they picked up from Palistinian or Muslim apologist. That one act may have killed the Ryanverse.

The German terrorist angle and the false-flag operation were present in the novel as well.

Somehow I doubt the lack of Muslim bad guys was what sunk the film or franchise (though there's supposed to be a new movie in development hell). It probably had more to do with following-up Harrison Ford with Ben Affleck and then turning it into a prequel completely offset in time from the previous movie continuity.

 

[Marc]

The Sum Of All Fears is the example TPTB probably lost more from Clancy fanatics then they picked up from Palistinian or Muslim apologist. That one act may have killed the Ryanverse.

The German terrorist angle and the false-flag operation were present in the novel as well.

Somehow I doubt the lack of Muslim bad guys was what sunk the film or franchise (though there's supposed to be a new movie in development hell). It probably had more to do with following-up Harrison Ford with Ben Affleck and then turning it into a prequel completely offset in time from the previous movie continuity.

I think the true motivation behind the bad guys in the book might actually have been lost on most movie goers because it wasn't actually Islam/religion.

 

[Marten]

You have to be quite stupid not to get that Farhad and his friends are iranians.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

True; but that isn't the question here. Our government isn't making these movies, hollywood is. If 24 wanted to use Iran as bad guys are you saying that the network would say no? Would the government pressure the network to say no?

Well the government can't pressure the networks to do anything, that would violate the First Amendment.

It seems Hollywood writers just try and to not piss people off on their own, probably to keep viewership. Enough people protested 24 during its fourth season with all of the Middle Eastern potrayals they did.

Portrayals of non-existing middle east countries? I think if the bad guys from this season were Iranians, and named as such, or last years terrorist were named a taliban, it may have gotten more press and New York's viewership of 24 would have been higher than it is now.

Rob

And there would have been violent protests, death threats and other such "fun" out the proverbial ying-yang. Look at what happened in Europe with the Danish cartoons for an example.

That and generic arabs cannot bring the economy to it's knees with the flip of an oil pump switch...