24: Live Another Day. Discussion Thread. (Spoilers)
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Spent the last 2 days binge-watching season 9. Really liked it even though they fell back on the "mole within alphabet-organization-subplot". They should have dragged out the Margot plot (take her back, interrogate her and reveal the link to Cross or something like that) instead of making Navarro the bad guy. Since Kate's husband was dead anyway there was no subsequent rescue-attempt to mount, so while it adds a tragic element it doesn't justify 2 episodes chasing Navarro/Cross.
Audrey: While it was stupid not to expect a backup-shooter (why not have the car come around to the bench instead of slowly walking? Or why not take to the trees while getting her out of the park?) and it was even more stupid to call Jack in the middle of an operation, I was heartbroken by Heller's reaction and his talk with the Prime Minister. So devastatingly sad. Heller really has made an impact during these 12 episodes.
Mark's jealousy really had catastrophic consequences - hadn't he interfered, Cheng might have been captured earlier and all this might have been prevented. And don't give me that "Jack's a liability"-BS as a reason for making that deal with the Russian. And I'm not even sure why everyone blames Jack for Audrey's getting captured by Cheng years back - it's not as though Jack had any saying in that as he was being tortured right then. I think it spoke highly of her character that she went looking for him when the official powers just sat on their collective fat behinds and only got him out to play the sacrificial lamb.
Jack turning himself over... I'm a bit ambivalent about that. I understand his reasons but during the 12 hour-gap something could have been arranged to get Chloe out. But judging from his expression he was at peace at the end (or rather suicidal enough not to mind that he's likely walking to his death).
Margot - what a sick family. But I like the fact that she would have kept the deal and sunk the drones. Actually that would have been a nice ending. As I said hour 9 with Jack throwing them all out the window was an ending not worthy of that plot, especially with another 3 episodes to fill.
Chloe - another tragic figure. I liked her trying to do what's right and being played for it. What's next for her?
I'd really love to know what happened after season 8 - there were some mentions (such as Chloe's stint in prison for helping Jack), but no real mention of the bigger picture: Did Logan survive? What happened to President Taylor? And while Jack went on a ramage he did as some kind of sideeffect uncover a pretty big conspiracy - how did that get explained away?
I see quite a lot of potential for a season 10. I'd prefer for them to keep it in this 12-hour format because it cuts back on stupid storylines (even if it doesn't prevent them from happening entirely) and focuses on the main story. Chloe knows what happened with Jack, so she'll try to get him out. I'm not sure whether Kate offers enough material to have her continue: the conspiracy around her husband is now in the open, she has resigned from the CIA, so I guess her part as a main character is over. But she could help, of course. I just can't see them ending the Bauer-storyline with him in a foreign country, enduring torture, maybe being executed in some black site because I can't see the Russians officially making a statement and the US not trying to get him out. So either they get him out or have him on an official trial for his crime, but not in this secretive way.
Whether with or without Jack, I really like the format of this series and definitely would welcome another season.
Audrey: While it was stupid not to expect a backup-shooter (why not have the car come around to the bench instead of slowly walking? Or why not take to the trees while getting her out of the park?) and it was even more stupid to call Jack in the middle of an operation, I was heartbroken by Heller's reaction and his talk with the Prime Minister. So devastatingly sad. Heller really has made an impact during these 12 episodes.
Mark's jealousy really had catastrophic consequences - hadn't he interfered, Cheng might have been captured earlier and all this might have been prevented. And don't give me that "Jack's a liability"-BS as a reason for making that deal with the Russian. And I'm not even sure why everyone blames Jack for Audrey's getting captured by Cheng years back - it's not as though Jack had any saying in that as he was being tortured right then. I think it spoke highly of her character that she went looking for him when the official powers just sat on their collective fat behinds and only got him out to play the sacrificial lamb.
Jack turning himself over... I'm a bit ambivalent about that. I understand his reasons but during the 12 hour-gap something could have been arranged to get Chloe out. But judging from his expression he was at peace at the end (or rather suicidal enough not to mind that he's likely walking to his death).
Margot - what a sick family. But I like the fact that she would have kept the deal and sunk the drones. Actually that would have been a nice ending. As I said hour 9 with Jack throwing them all out the window was an ending not worthy of that plot, especially with another 3 episodes to fill.
Chloe - another tragic figure. I liked her trying to do what's right and being played for it. What's next for her?
I'd really love to know what happened after season 8 - there were some mentions (such as Chloe's stint in prison for helping Jack), but no real mention of the bigger picture: Did Logan survive? What happened to President Taylor? And while Jack went on a ramage he did as some kind of sideeffect uncover a pretty big conspiracy - how did that get explained away?
I see quite a lot of potential for a season 10. I'd prefer for them to keep it in this 12-hour format because it cuts back on stupid storylines (even if it doesn't prevent them from happening entirely) and focuses on the main story. Chloe knows what happened with Jack, so she'll try to get him out. I'm not sure whether Kate offers enough material to have her continue: the conspiracy around her husband is now in the open, she has resigned from the CIA, so I guess her part as a main character is over. But she could help, of course. I just can't see them ending the Bauer-storyline with him in a foreign country, enduring torture, maybe being executed in some black site because I can't see the Russians officially making a statement and the US not trying to get him out. So either they get him out or have him on an official trial for his crime, but not in this secretive way.
Whether with or without Jack, I really like the format of this series and definitely would welcome another season.
So, time to rank the 24 presidents again?
1. Palmer
2. Heller
3. Logan
4. Palmer 2
5. Taylor
1. Palmer
2. Heller
3. Logan
4. Palmer 2
5. Taylor
Rank in terms of enjoying them onscreen or in terms of how good they were as Presidents? Because how could Taylor (who did some dubious and stupid things like all 24 presidents to be sure, but was probably the least bad since Palmer) possibly be worse than Logan, who was a straight up traitor?
Enjoying them onscreen.
Ranking as actual best POTUS would look different.
Ranking as actual best POTUS would look different.
I called it! Russian gulag or death for Jack! Yay, I guess?
It was good. A little too much in the "let me recap shit you already know so the stupid audience knows what's going on" department. It happened three times in the first 30 minutes! But the storming of the container ship was fucking awesome. Belcheck is the grubby Southern European Agent Pierce for this season, so he gets to be awesome and live, too. Nice.
The way Kate and Co. got jumped was hella (Heller?) lame. I was screaming at the tv for them to pick up the damn pace a bit from casual stroll in the park.
Jack didn't have an invincibility star, he just got his Bullet Time meter filled by Kate's call. The meat cleaver kill was hilariously cool, as was the neck stab/human shield assault on the bridge. And I could almost hear Shang Tsung calling out, "Finish Him!" when he whipped out the katana.
I want a full 24 ep season after this, but written like this one was with mostly tight plots and minimal side issues and lame family shit. Don't know that they could pull that off, though, so I'd be OK with more 12 ep summer adventures.
Great job, all around. See you in Siberia, Jack.
It was good. A little too much in the "let me recap shit you already know so the stupid audience knows what's going on" department. It happened three times in the first 30 minutes! But the storming of the container ship was fucking awesome. Belcheck is the grubby Southern European Agent Pierce for this season, so he gets to be awesome and live, too. Nice.
The way Kate and Co. got jumped was hella (Heller?) lame. I was screaming at the tv for them to pick up the damn pace a bit from casual stroll in the park.
Jack didn't have an invincibility star, he just got his Bullet Time meter filled by Kate's call. The meat cleaver kill was hilariously cool, as was the neck stab/human shield assault on the bridge. And I could almost hear Shang Tsung calling out, "Finish Him!" when he whipped out the katana.
I want a full 24 ep season after this, but written like this one was with mostly tight plots and minimal side issues and lame family shit. Don't know that they could pull that off, though, so I'd be OK with more 12 ep summer adventures.
Great job, all around. See you in Siberia, Jack.
Yeah, that part drove me crazy. You don't stop for a delightful Mary Poppins walk through the park when you have a dignitary who just had a sniper target her.
Yeah, with a high value target like Audrey you'd think they would have rushed her into a car as soon as possible rather than just milling around.
I watched it again tonight with my buddy and I noticed some things that I didn't last week.
First of all, how did Audrey die? She was shot somewhere in the abdomen which, sure, if it wasn't a through-and-through shot, and depending on where, it could be potentially lethal but not likely lethal inside of a minute like we see in the episode. She pretty much just "decided she was dead." And where we ever told exactly HOW the Russians new about this meeting between Audrey and the Chinese consulate lady?
And, again, I'm a big fan of William Devane and he did a really, really, good job in his Alzheimer's/Audrey monologue on the apron next to AFO.
My buddy has enjoyed the season but was really disappointed in the episode, particularly the ending which ended much like Season 5's with Jack being captured by a foreign agency potentially to be imprisoned/tortured.
Something I did wonder is if Jack maybe passed something off to Chloe as the two talk to each other during the prisoner exchange. He holds hands with her and when they finally part there seems to be some interesting hand movements there that suggest a pass-off.
Also wonder if Jack may have some subcutaneous device that will facilitate his escape/tracking? Remember in the second episode of this season Jack seemed to a have a few subcutaneous devices in him that allowed him to communicate and set off devices without anything on his person.
I watched it again tonight with my buddy and I noticed some things that I didn't last week.
First of all, how did Audrey die? She was shot somewhere in the abdomen which, sure, if it wasn't a through-and-through shot, and depending on where, it could be potentially lethal but not likely lethal inside of a minute like we see in the episode. She pretty much just "decided she was dead." And where we ever told exactly HOW the Russians new about this meeting between Audrey and the Chinese consulate lady?
And, again, I'm a big fan of William Devane and he did a really, really, good job in his Alzheimer's/Audrey monologue on the apron next to AFO.
My buddy has enjoyed the season but was really disappointed in the episode, particularly the ending which ended much like Season 5's with Jack being captured by a foreign agency potentially to be imprisoned/tortured.
Something I did wonder is if Jack maybe passed something off to Chloe as the two talk to each other during the prisoner exchange. He holds hands with her and when they finally part there seems to be some interesting hand movements there that suggest a pass-off.
Also wonder if Jack may have some subcutaneous device that will facilitate his escape/tracking? Remember in the second episode of this season Jack seemed to a have a few subcutaneous devices in him that allowed him to communicate and set off devices without anything on his person.
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Yeah, I don't know what the Russians were thinking giving Jack twelve hours to prepare for the pickup. This is a man who crosses traffic clogged cities in minutes and goes entire days without eating or going to the bathroom. Can you imagine what he can do with twelve free hours, a sandwich, and an empty bladder? Russia is so fucked.
Sure it could. Gunshot wounds are a crapshoot. One inch to the right or left and you sever an artery and bleed out internally, another inch and you'll live with minor consequences. Not all gut-shots are of the slow and agonizing variety.
Sure it could. Gunshot wounds are a crapshoot. One inch to the right or left and you sever an artery and bleed out internally, another inch and you'll live with minor consequences. Not all gut-shots are of the slow and agonizing variety.
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I dunno, it just seemed odd that Audrey died so quickly from what appeared to be a survivable wound. Yeah, if it got an artery she'd bleed out in not time at all but, well, that'd be a lucky shot considering her hit wasn't targeted but pretty much a stray bullet. It just seemed like a Padme death.
And, I guess it's "possible" where Jack met-up with the Russians to recover Chloe could've been a 12-hour drive away in some Eastern-European country, but, still, Jack could've came up with one hell of a plan inside 12-hours. Wouldn't The President, Agent Yvonne and others be trying to get a hold of him that entire time? Certainly The President would have put something together for Chloe, worked something out with the Russians to smooth over their "need" for Jack, and so forth. It strikes me as terribly contrived and way too open-ended for what is supposedly Jack's last outing.
Jack asked Chloe in the brief meeting at the end to look in on his family, I guessing he got Chloe a full pardon from her various crimes as well?
And, I guess it's "possible" where Jack met-up with the Russians to recover Chloe could've been a 12-hour drive away in some Eastern-European country, but, still, Jack could've came up with one hell of a plan inside 12-hours. Wouldn't The President, Agent Yvonne and others be trying to get a hold of him that entire time? Certainly The President would have put something together for Chloe, worked something out with the Russians to smooth over their "need" for Jack, and so forth. It strikes me as terribly contrived and way too open-ended for what is supposedly Jack's last outing.
Jack asked Chloe in the brief meeting at the end to look in on his family, I guessing he got Chloe a full pardon from her various crimes as well?
Well this is ironic. I started a series rewatch a few days ago and started season 2 today and saw that the girl who played little Megan in season 2 just died:
http://www.people.com/article/skye-mcCole-bartusiak-dies-21
http://www.people.com/article/skye-mcCole-bartusiak-dies-21
Probably. He had plenty of time, in 24 time at least.
Well, damn. It's always terrible to see someone die so young. I vaguely recall her character on 24, but I definitely recall her as the little girl in The Patriot. Not a great movie, but her "goodbye" scene with Gibson brought a tear to my eye.
I have to rank Taylor higher simply because I think the mere concept of Palmer 2 is really contrived.
Anyway, as much as I like Heller, Logan is a bit more enjoyable for me to watch. That snivelling little coward managed to switch between patriotic to weasel in no time, effortlessly. While Heller is really likeable, I thought he was a bit corny at times ("What Jack Bauer wants, Jack Bauer gets!"), though his collapse from Audrey's death was one of the most effectively heartbreaking moments in the show's history ever.
How many Presidents have there been during the 24 timeline?
1. Whoever was in office while Palmer was running for President.
2. Palmer.
3. Palmer's VP who went 25th Amendment on him for a couple hours.
4. Keeler
5. Logan
6. Ray Wise
7. Palmer 2
8. Daniels
9. Taylor
10. Whoever Taylor's VP was.
11. Heller
12. Whoever Heller's VP is.
And David Palmer is the only on-screen President who served out one full term.
1. Whoever was in office while Palmer was running for President.
2. Palmer.
3. Palmer's VP who went 25th Amendment on him for a couple hours.
4. Keeler
5. Logan
6. Ray Wise
7. Palmer 2
8. Daniels
9. Taylor
10. Whoever Taylor's VP was.
11. Heller
12. Whoever Heller's VP is.
And David Palmer is the only on-screen President who served out one full term.
Jack Bauer is actually Barry Allen aka The Flash...
Yikes. It makes you wonder who would ever want the job anymore!
Wasn't Taylor in her second term of office in season 8? Somehow that was my impression when I watched it recently.
And is there a timeline available for the 24-universe?
Great, thanks!
Ah, only 18 months between season 7 and 8 - given that season 6 takes place around 3 months after Palmer 2 assumed office (he himself says so, so that would make season 6 take place at the end of April/beginning of May) and according to the timeline some 3 years and 8 months are between seasons 6 and 7... well, that would put season 7 just at the beginning of Taylor's presidency (actually, that would put season 7 right at the beginning of January *lol).
I'm right in the middle of rewatching season 6... and while I like the idea of another Palmer in office (did he even hold an office earlier on? Was something mentioned in the earlier seasons? Or was he just elected because of the memory of his brother? Of course, it might be possible he got fasttracked, had a short stint as congressman/senator/governor before his election...), I'm not so sure what to make of his decisions early on in season 6 (I'm up to episode 3). Granted, terrorism ran abound in the US - but he gave in to every demand: handing over Jack, preparing to hand over those terrorists... What about no negotiating with terrorists - especially if they consider you weak? At what point do you say stop? And if you start giving in, who says they'd stop once they know which buttons to push?
So my president-ranking:
Palmer - Heller - .... lots of space - Taylor and Palmer 2 - Logan
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