2023 Discovery Rewatch

[fireproof78]

And so far, yeah, a mirror-centric season 2 would have been better than the evil AI S2 that we got.

but they gotta have fun with the mirror-verse. Ham it up some like they did on TOS, DS9 and Enterprise. They took themselves way too serious in the Disco Mirror-verse.

They could also dial back on the production design too. There’s a reason the phrase is “keep it simple stupid”. Sadly SNW and Disco ignore that far too often.

Oh, I disagree. Discovery used the MU far more effectively than DS9. It played very well with the tone set by TOS and ENT. It plays to human vice like TOS played to virtue.

Yes, I think Season 1 focused on the Klingon War, get to know Lorca, his effectiveness in battle then explore how he wants to gain power.
Season 2, more with the mycelial network and in to the MU.

MU design is gorgeous.

 

[Quantum21]

Oh, I disagree. Discovery used the MU far more effectively than DS9. It played very well with the tone set by TOS and ENT. It plays to human vice like TOS played to virtue.

Yes, I think Season 1 focused on the Klingon War, get to know Lorca, his effectiveness in battle then explore how he wants to gain power.
Season 2, more with the mycelial network and in to the MU.

MU design is gorgeous.

My top 3 MU episodes:

Despite Yourself
Mirror, Mirror
Crossover

DS9 did produce one knockout MU story I believe!

As for tone, I loved the way Discovery ramped up the feeling of pervasive unease with the MU itself as opposed to the pure camp of later DS9 MU stories.

 

[Paul755]

Oh, I disagree. Discovery used the MU far more effectively than DS9. It played very well with the tone set by TOS and ENT. It plays to human vice like TOS played to virtue.

Yes, I think Season 1 focused on the Klingon War, get to know Lorca, his effectiveness in battle then explore how he wants to gain power.
Season 2, more with the mycelial network and in to the MU.

MU design is gorgeous.

agree to disagree on the use of the mirrorverse. Maybe I’ll see it different when I get to the S3 mirror episode but for me they were just too self serious compared to what came before.

and I don’t dislike the Mirror designs. I just think they went too far for what it is, sometimes simpler is better.

 

[fireproof78]

agree to disagree on the use of the mirrorverse. Maybe I’ll see it different when I get to the S3 mirror episode but for me they were just too self serious compared to what came before.

and I don’t dislike the Mirror designs. I just think they went too far for what it is, sometimes simpler is better.

What is "too far?"

They added gold accents over standard uniforms, as before. We saw the Empress in her regalia, so of course it will more than before. We had not seen this high level before!

And, too serious? In Mirror Mirror things become deadly serious by the end. I don't understand this idea. They should laugh more?

 

[Paul755]

What is "too far?"

They added gold accents over standard uniforms, as before. We saw the Empress in her regalia, so of course it will more than before. We had not seen this high level before!

And, too serious? In Mirror Mirror things become deadly serious by the end. I don't understand this idea. They should laugh more?

maybe heavy is the wrong word but too elaborate maybe. Yeah, the emperor should be over the top. But for everyone else simpler additions, instead of the gold “armor” pieces just the simple gold sashes and belts from TOS/ENT. In the end I guess it’s just a nitpick.

On all the other shows there was a seriousness for sure. But there was also a sense of fun from the actors getting to play a different version of the character and a level of ham to the performances. The only one that maybe rises to the level of say Intendant Kira is Georgiou.

 

[fireproof78]

On all the other shows there was a seriousness for sure. But there was also a sense of fun from the actors getting to play a different version of the character and a level of ham to the performances. The only one that maybe rises to the level of say Intendant Kira is Georgiou

Oh please. DS9 was all self serious and was not fun, especially Worf and Garak. Discovery at least had a dramatic weight to it.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I never got that at all from Adira. I believe they are just non-binary, not as a result of any Trill issues, that's just how they are. I believe they tell Stamets that they always felt that way. Same with Gray, he isn't a trans man because of Trill stuff, he's just a trans man.

And that's ok... there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's just... yeah I want to explore complicated real life issues through a sci-fi lens, not just... in actual real life context. Both of those characters feel like they exist just for the sake of it. I'm for all for diversity and representation and what not, but I dislike it when that becomes the character primary purpose. Again contrasting to Stamets and Culber. They aren't there to just be "the gay guys". They are complex characters who contribute in droves to the narrative, who are also gay. That's wonderful.

Even better was the the trans woman from SNW... to me, done in the best possible way... I didn't even know she was trans until reading a review of the episode after I saw it. She was just presented as... a woman.

Been doing a rewatch as well, and this is where I started to pull my hair out. Season 3 had some really naff moments, but the shoehorning of Adira's identity was so transparent it was insulting. They only made Adira NB because the actor revealed that weeks into filming. From a story standpoint, it made no sense, zero, none that they didn't say something the moment someone called them she.
Plus, I find Stamets's imprinting on them so hard to be a little bit creepy. Where are their real parents? Dead? Who TF even knows. She's a minor basically being forcefully adopted by this guy she barely knows. It seems gross
Likewise with Gray. What was even the point of Gray? He gets a body, and then whoosh, he's gone. Is he even in season 5? So far it doesn't seem like it. So why even have him at all, except to pat themselves on the back and say "Look at how inclusive we are. "
Star Trek is "woke". It always, always has been. But that has never been more important than the story. Until now, at least.

 

[Quantum21]

What is "too far?"

They added gold accents over standard uniforms, as before. We saw the Empress in her regalia, so of course it will more than before. We had not seen this high level before!

And, too serious? In Mirror Mirror things become deadly serious by the end. I don't understand this idea. They should laugh more?

I'd like to vote yes on more serious Trek. That's how I like my scifi. That doesn't mean humorless though.

 

[Paul755]

I’m finding Season 3 to be more disjointed than I remember. It’s better than season 2 for sure. But it feels a bit all over the place.

I like the PTSD storyline with Detmer but I think they could have spent more time with that and expanded it to include more of the crew.

I still really hate that they had Earth peace out of The Federation at the first signs of trouble. And Tilly as first officer was a poor choice for Saru after proving himself to be a pretty strong Captain.

 

[Quantum21]

I’m finding Season 3 to be more disjointed than I remember. It’s better than season 2 for sure. But it feels a bit all over the place.

I like the PTSD storyline with Detmer but I think they could have spent more time with that and expanded it to include more of the crew.

I still really hate that they had Earth peace out of The Federation at the first signs of trouble. And Tilly as first officer was a poor choice for Saru after proving himself to be a pretty strong Captain.

Tilly absolutely did not prove herself as command material. She's much better off at the Academy.

 

[fireproof78]

I still really hate that they had Earth peace out of The Federation at the first signs of trou

How much shit has Earth suffered in the name of the Federation? How much more must it endure?

And Tilly as first officer was a poor choice for Saru after proving himself to be a pretty strong Captain.

Almost like a trauma response

 

[Paul755]

How much shit has Earth suffered in the name of the Federation? How much more must it endure?

Earth/we are the rug that really brought the room together. It’s the mantle of leadership. Having Earth jump ship really feels like a ham fisted “America First” allegory that was going on politically in the US at the time. Like if Trump had really actually pulled the US out of NATO as he has/had consistently threatened.

Almost like a trauma response

I don’t think it’s a trauma thing. But a “I really like Tilly, even if she is under-qualified” thing. In reality it’s a “we never bothered to develop any characters beyond Michael, Saru, Tilly, Stamets and Culber” thing.

 

[Quantum21]

Earth/we are the rug that really brought the room together. It’s the mantle of leadership. Having Earth jump ship really feels like a ham fisted “America First” allegory that was going on politically in the US at the time. Like if Trump had really actually pulled the US out of NATO as he has/had consistently threatened.




I don’t think it’s a trauma thing. But a “I really like Tilly, even if she is under-qualified” thing. In reality it’s a “we never bothered to develop any characters beyond Michael, Saru, Tilly, Stamets and Culber” thing.

You got it. It was political, to show how fragile things can be when civilization is on the brink. I can think of multiple implications of that scenerio they portrayed and I find none of them far-fetched at all in-universe or out.

 

[fireproof78]

Earth/we are the rug that really brought the room together. It’s the mantle of leadership. Having Earth jump ship really feels like a ham fisted “America First” allegory that was going on politically in the US at the time. Like if Trump had really actually pulled the US out of NATO as he has/had consistently threatened.

Ham fisted? Ok, I guess different strokes, etc.

I thought it made sense because Earth has taken so much of the Federation's garbage, been attacked multiple times throughout history and shouldered so much at some point in time that trust is going to fracture.

I don’t think it’s a trauma thing. But a “I really like Tilly, even if she is under-qualified” thing. In reality it’s a “we never bothered to develop any characters beyond Michael, Saru, Tilly, Stamets and Culber” thing.

I was talking about a trauma response from Saru. It made sense in the moment.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I was talking about a trauma response from Saru. It made sense in the moment.

To me, Tilly becoming first officer just highlighted the lack of development of Disco's command structure.
On TOS: Kirk, Spock, Scotty, Sulu, Uhura
TNG: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, LaForge
DS9: Sisko, Kira, Worf, Dax
VOY: Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok
ENT: Archer, Trip, T'Pol, Reed
Disco: Saru, Burnham....Tilly?
It just jumps out as ridiculous. And yes, they lampshaded it throughout the rest of the season, but that doesn't make it feasible. I loved Saru as captain, and I felt like that was just one more in an infuriating long line of things the Writer's did to discredit Saru's capabilities, aside from having different crew members question his competence every episode.

 

[fireproof78]

It just jumps out as ridiculous. An

Yes and why I say it makes sense in story as a trauma symptom.

 

[Paul755]

I dunno I would say it was trauma related, unless he considered Tilly to be the least affected by the upheaval. Now his reaction to finding out it’s a Kelpian ship they have to rescue…that is trauma related.

I think picking Tilly was just an overreaction to being undercut by Burnham…again. He went for someone almost too honest. And the in-experience shows when she lost the ship in her first chance to command.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno I would say it was trauma related, unless he considered Tilly to be the least affected by the upheaval. Now his reaction to finding out it’s a Kelpian ship they have to rescue…that is trauma related.

I think picking Tilly was just an overreaction to being undercut by Burnham…again. He went for someone almost too honest. And the in-experience shows when she lost the ship in her first chance to command.

I don't see how that's not a trauma response.

 

[Vulture]

Tonight we are in the final frontier days.
Star Trek: Discovery 4x11 Rosetta
Ugh Halo ad. I tried to like that show, I just don't.
Here we go, on with the show.
Psych! Recap first.
Here we go.
Opens with a Captains log. WELL DONE! The best TNG ep opened with a Capt Log.
Oh damn they're all in shiney black tactical armor. I dig it.
"Hey, fly good" rly?
Book & Tarka are great in this.
Letting the intro play today.
This is a pretty fancy shuttle craft.
Galeleo 7777?
There He is.
Saru's got hoof EV boots.
He's trippin.
Don't beam into cramped spaces.
Don't touch the blue dust.
It could be the dust!
They got shitty ev suits.
Fixed the filter with programmable matter.
Steamed bananas
Tig "Jett" Reno represents the best of this show.
A cocoon? Fascinating
Michael is inhaling the alien dust and trippin balls.
Dust causes emotions.
Sounds more like "thin white lines" to me.
Ten-C is Ten-Cocaine! BAM
Screen went black, hoped ep was over, nope was just a commercial break / act break spot.
Then the show comes back and the away team is doing group therapy.
Oh they're suddenly back on board now.
Stamets feels hope. I prefer to call it faith.
MORN at the bar! No way.
She did fly good.
Unexpected Hostage.

Decent ep. I rate it 7 Andys#STTNC

 

[Cr0sis21]

Yes and why I say it makes sense in story as a trauma symptom.

I get what you're saying, but from a writing perspective, they have never established a real command structure. Let's say there was no trauma. So after Burnham, command passes to...who? Chief of security? Who's that? Does it go to another bridge officer? Which one? We have no idea.
It would have made more sense for someone to say "Hey Saru, why did you pass me up when I'm literally the next in line for command?" But I honestly have no idea who that person would be, because they've never told us that.
I'm also annoyed because I liked Saru as captain, but the show did everything possible to basically scream that Burnham would be a waaaay better captain. Of course.