2011 SotL Calendar

[deg3D]

Speaking of careless and ungainly - I'm glad none of the original designs from Star Trek: Online have made it onto Ships of The Line.

The donut ship and flippy-nacelle runabout from the period where Perpetual were pretending to develop the game were kinda cool, though.

Yeah, I'll echo that I would never ever want to see an STO ship in the calendar. The ship designs from that game are truly fugly in the most true sense of the word.

I personally wish that the art in the calendar would reflect what the original intent was... to show us FX shots that would have been cool to see with a blank check budget, and to see concepts realized, like Andy Probert's Sphinx. I really do not want ANY fanon material in the calendar, no matter what the era. Just keep it within the members of the Trek production team.

And it doesn't always have to be exteriors... for instance, it'd be nice to see realized concepts for the insides of ships and places, like Andy Probert's designs for the interior of the 1701-D, or a TNG version of the massive lounge on Sacedock... maybe a painting of someone having a drink at a table beside the massive windows, looking out at a docked 1701-D, or the same, but at a time when the ship was still under build, at Utopia Plantita... there are many new and original things that can be done, without using fanon designs.

Allow me to first say, I totally respect all your guys' POVs and opinions and this is not meant as a defense (as no offense is ever taken) or critique of your own critique at all, just sharing some of my own thoughts... I hope they are heard in the spirit of Trekker friendship and IDIC, as they are spoken in.

So, that shared,, for the record, that is basically what I try to do with my Trek work; to realize stuff that has not been realized before. Starting with me TOS.5 E, as I wanted to do her (with über-respect, Matt's flush and clean concept set aside a bit) like I felt she might be if realized today. And with Johnny's D4, I just felt that birdie needed a proper realization (no slight meant to Koji's awesome unused production time-table realization of her), to bring her to life as I felt she could be through me.

Same goes for Andrew's Sphinx, which if asked back, I will consider doing a shot of her perhaps some day.

For me, STO, there was some really cool stuff that I saw come out of there from Johnny and Ryan. Esp. of course the Sacagawea-Class scout which I had to build after seeing it.

So I try me best, but I realize no artist can hit the bull's-eye with every single fan of Trek out there. But, one tries to bring to life what, as a fan as well, one wants to see for one's self, and hopes perhaps some other fellow Trekkers will glean some level of Trek-based enjoyment out of it a well, eh.

peace and long life & bananas | deg

 

[largo]

It reminds me of my favorite little "stick-it-to-'em" in Star Trek '09, that the only part of the original universe to survive the alternate completely intact was "Enterprise."

if you like to think so, but i'm fairly convinced that "Enterprise" was never in the same universe as TOS, etc. some twisted mirror universe, certainly.

You're mistaken. The folks who get to make that call - the people who own it - made it. Period, full stop. One can like or dislike that, but one can also kick the ocean - makes the same difference.

which is precisely what it's doing posted to a random thread in a tiny part of a star trek forum in the middle of the internet. totally understand that. my comment is merely my conviction, and therefore cannot be mistaken, merely a violation of reality. convictions, in my experience, often are.

 

[AstroSmurf]

So I try me best, but I realize no artist can hit the bull's-eye with every single fan of Trek out there. But, one tries to bring to life what, as a fan as well, one wants to see for one's self, and hopes perhaps some other fellow Trekkers will glean some level of Trek-based enjoyment out of it a well, eh.

I totally agree with that deg. As an artist I can hope that my work is accepted and appreciated but my own need to express my viewpoint and artistic voice is paramount to that. All other considerations of the work, be it financial, marketability or relatability, are grossly secondary. Most of you know me from my silly deckplans but I am actually a painter and a photographer. I am constantly having arguments with gallery owners/buyers about tone or subject matter for the purposes of the sell. It can be an extremely frustrating thing to freely express yourself and then have others question your eye and inspiration. So now I just do what I do, do it the best I can and let the chips land where they may.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, we also have the option to spill oil in the ocean, you know.

Keeps people from going to the trendy new beaches that we don't like.

Except that it really, really doesn't.

In this case, it did provide fodder for a good Onion video and I guess that's something.

 

[rtsurfer]

if you like to think so, but i'm fairly convinced that "Enterprise" was never in the same universe as TOS, etc. some twisted mirror universe, certainly.

You're mistaken. The folks who get to make that call - the people who own it - made it. Period, full stop. One can like or dislike that, but one can also kick the ocean - makes the same difference.

which is precisely what it's doing posted to a random thread in a tiny part of a star trek forum in the middle of the internet. totally understand that. my comment is merely my conviction, and therefore cannot be mistaken, merely a violation of reality. convictions, in my experience, often are.

IIRC, I remember reading that Brannon Braga admitted in a lecture given about the time of the Borg episode that Enterprise does deviate from the TOS timeline.

 

[JarodRussell]

So far, artwork in SOTL is mostly just recreation of stuff we've already seen (and unfortunately, most of the time vastly inferior to the original, that Enterprise inside V'Ger from last year was quite... well, I don't really want to say terrible, but...).

How many times was there already a Enterprise vs. Reliant image? Or Enterprise (doesn't matter which one) in drydock? Enterprise approaching/departing from a space station? Or a shuttle approaching/departing the Enterprise? Or the Enterprise being surrounded by Klingon or Romulan ships? Most of the time it's the same thing over and over again.

And what's up with these fan made ship designs nobody knows about and that will never appear again? The Ringship is finally one good exception, because it is popular with fans.

deg, I hope you don't take it the wrong way, I like your image, but the Enterprise firing at the D7 isn't really that different from the Enterprise firing at the Reliant.

And the nuTrek images, while technically looking friggin' awesome, are also (almost) just re-renderings of scenes from the movie.

That spacedock being built image from last year was one of the most creative ones I've seen in a long time. Or the NX-02 being found in the desert (dunno which year that was). And Andrew Probert did a painting once of the Captain's Yacht arriving. That was pretty cool. That's new stuff, that's creative stuff.

Re-renderings of movie scenes are quite lame (since mostly the originals are of much better quality by default (nuTrek images this year being the exception to the rule)). Re-renderings of TOS now look just like TOS-R. Some stuff from TNG has some potential (last year the Bozeman crashing into the Enterprise-D, or a couple of years ago the Enterprise in front of those jellyfish things from the TNG pilot).

At least the images got overall better in technical quality since SOTL 2009.

 

[deg3D]

deg, I hope you don't take it the wrong way, I like your image, but the Enterprise firing at the D7 isn't really that different from the Enterprise firing at the Reliant.

No worries, dude. I respect your POV for yourself, eh. Glad to hear there has been some stuff along the SOTL way that you have enjoyed.

How many times was there already a Enterprise vs. Reliant image? Or Enterprise (doesn't matter which one) in drydock? Enterprise approaching/departing from a space station? Or a shuttle approaching/departing the Enterprise? Or the Enterprise being surrounded by Klingon or Romulan ships? Most of the time it's the same thing over and over again.

That's pretty much what Star Trek is all about, to me anywho. Coming up with original variations (pardon the oxymoron) on a theme is not an easy thing to do successfully (for me anywho). Always reminds me of convos I have had with John Eaves, about him trying to come up with fresh ship concepts within the Trek universe, when everything has pretty much been done already. Oh well, like I said, we try our best, eh. And I echo AstroSmurf's excellent thoughts on trying to hit the bull's-eye for all concerned. One can never please 100% of the peeps 100% of the time. Trying to will drive an artist to drink or death.

Thanks for sharing your POV, good to hear, eh.

Oh, for the record, that's Johnny's D4, eh. Not a D7. Come on, any Trekker worth their salt-vampire can see that, eh. I kid...

deg

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

IIRC, I remember reading that Brannon Braga admitted in a lecture given about the time of the Borg episode that Enterprise does deviate from the TOS timeline.

None of which matters a whit as to whether it's all part of the mainline "Prime" continuity, which it is.

TOS deviates from the TOS timeline.

 

[David cgc]

IIRC, I remember reading that Brannon Braga admitted in a lecture given about the time of the Borg episode that Enterprise does deviate from the TOS timeline.

Well, sure, but Brannon Braga co-wrote "These Are the Voyages." That's probably the best proof that he didn't have any idea what he was talking about when it came to "Enterprise."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Not to drag us off-topic, David, but I took a look at your gallery over at www.foundation3d.com. You know, I'm still rather proud of that refit model, but you make it look a lot better than it actually is.

 

[publiusr]

For me, STO, there was some really cool stuff that I saw come out of there from Johnny and Ryan. Esp. of course the Sacagawea-Class scout which I had to build after seeing it.

peace and long life & bananas | deg

I like the Excalibur Class cover/ad art as it is seen from a front 3/4 view looking upward. As it is rendered in the STO gallery--not so much.

I think you could do a much better Excalibur that would match the 3/4 view of the STO ad-campaign where the ship is over the starfleeter with the phaser.

It is a design that deserves to be made as the ultimate evolution of the refit--in the same way the K'teremny is the ultimate D-7.

 

[BolianAuthor]

I got my calendar today. My favorite images are the cover, the ringship, and Probert's vertical Warbird... OMG, how awesome that would be to see on the big screen!

The image with the all-fanon ships like the Sun Tzu really does not belong... the Sun Tzu itself is such a thoughtless and careless kitbash, it's not even funny... it literally looks like something a fourth grader would draw in school. And all the ships in that image just look awkward and fugly. You're telling me nobody in any of the Trek production teams could come up with anything more interesting than that? Please. This is why no more fanon crap should be in the calendars... JUST stuff made by the production teams.

The NX refit... there's really no way out of that ship being ugly, in any of its forms, and unfortunately, the refit only added to its ugliness.

The image of the 1701-E shuttlebay was very nice, but somehow, I was hoping for more from Eaves... the deck looked almost too barren, because both groups of shuttles were on the very sides of the deck. But it was a nice image.

I don't care for the Kelvin at all, but I will say that the image of the JJ-Prise was absolutely beautiful... I don't like the ship much, but that image did manage to make it look good, and the composition was great.

Overall, the CGI in this calendar WAS a step up from the low-poly stuff we got the past couple years, so I'm more than happy with that. I just want to see no more fanon stuff, and devote the calendar to the original concept... showing us "stuff that never was", from the production team.

 

[David cgc]

Not to drag us off-topic, David, but I took a look at your gallery over at www.foundation3d.com. You know, I'm still rather proud of that refit model, but you make it look a lot better than it actually is.

Thanks. I really appreciate that.

Overall, the CGI in this calendar WAS a step up from the low-poly stuff we got the past couple years, so I'm more than happy with that. I just want to see no more fanon stuff, and devote the calendar to the original concept... showing us "stuff that never was", from the production team.

We're all fan artists, now.

 

[sojourner]

Yea, a blanket statement of "no more fanon crap" is pretty much an insult to everyone in this forum. It's fair to criticize individual works of art, but not everyone!

 

[largo]

This is why no more fanon crap should be in the calendars... JUST stuff made by the production teams.

-1

 

[BolianAuthor]

I probably could have phrased my comment better, but I still think that the content should be limited to stuff put forth by actual production team members.
I myself have come up with MANY ship designs and such, but I wouldn't want any of my stuff in there just for the sake of it being there... if I put money down for something, I'd like something of quality. And while some people may dislike even designs put forth by the PTB on the show, at least it's actual production stuff, and not something that someone not involved with the productions did. The original premise of the SotL was for the VFX and art people on the shows to run free, and show us stuff that we've always wanted to see, but never did... not to promote the CG work of individual fans.

 

[JarodRussell]

I probably could have phrased my comment better, but I still think that the content should be limited to stuff put forth by actual production team members.
I myself have come up with MANY ship designs and such, but I wouldn't want any of my stuff in there just for the sake of it being there... if I put money down for something, I'd like something of quality. And while some people may dislike even designs put forth by the PTB on the show, at least it's actual production stuff, and not something that someone not involved with the productions did. The original premise of the SotL was for the VFX and art people on the shows to run free, and show us stuff that we've always wanted to see, but never did... not to promote the CG work of individual fans.

So the fans they allowed to contribute (deg for example) shouldn't continue?

 

[deg3D]

This is why no more fanon crap should be in the calendars...

You're entitled to your opinion, BA, but your point gets completely lost on me passed your, for whatever reason, choice to be insulting in your delivery of it.

I never understood we one can't simply share that one does not care for something, without having to resort to insulting the artist's work (thus the artist) in the process. Gene and his IDIC ideal would not be proud.

I have a lot of friends contributing to SOTL (both fans, and BTS pros who were once just, and still are fans) and none of what I see is “crap.” Not by a long shot. That's a high-horse you ride there, I'd say. No-one is forcing you to “put your money down.”

Word of advice; you want peeps to ever consider your POV in convo, try not insulting them in the process. As that is all that they will remember and/or consider the source once it comes out of your mouth. Or just fall back on the Golden Rule if in doubt. What a concept.

Carry on.

deg

 

[BolianAuthor]

I won't repeat myself, and turn this into an argument. I merely expressed my opinion. You do not agree with it, and that is fine. But IMO, there are beyond plenty never-seen concepts from people like Sternbach, Probert, Eaves, and all the rest, that could get some face time...

 

[deg3D]

I won't repeat myself, and turn this into an argument. I merely expressed my opinion. You do not agree with it, and that is fine. But IMO, there are beyond plenty never-seen concepts from people like Sternbach, Probert, Eaves, and all the rest, that could get some face time...

There is no argument nor interest in one, going on my side. And no, you did not just express your opinion. You also chose to be insulting in the process. That's the fact of it. if you are unable to objectively see that; fine.

Now, if you had shared what you just shared,

“IMO, there are beyond plenty never-seen concepts from people like Sternbach, Probert, Eaves, and all the rest, that could get some face time...”

as is: then that would be just expressing an opinion, in a positive light.

One does not NEED to go to the dark-side to get one's point across. IMO, anywho.

deg