Spoilers 1st openly gay character.

[GeekUSACarl]

Trek has never done romance well.

I wouldn't say they always did it "horribly" but I can think of one instance where it was amazing. Lessons, I thought the romance angle in that was so good, I mean to this day my heart gets heavy still when I see it.

I think they do complicated "relationships" well a couple times.

Picard and Crusher, though I wouldn't count it as a romance I think the interplay in a few episodes was deep, and good.
I think O'Brien and Keiko's marriage was well portrayed.

But for the most part you're right.

 

[Nerys Myk]

One quote doesn't change what the content of the episodes were and I'm pretty sure it clearly wasn't a social issue a day. it was far more science fiction that social issuey.

And I aint sayin when they did It that it wasn't deliberate, just saying it wasn't the thing every episode was based on nor does it seem the point was to tackle every social issue known to man.

The science fiction was just a platform to explore various issues on a personal and social level through allegory. As Science and Science Fiction goes, Trek was on the soft side.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

You say that like they are mutually exclusive when one fits neatly inside the other when it comes to Star Trek.

I don't think I'm trying to make it mutually exclusive I'm saying that it was a science fiction show first, and that's how most people were entertained and that's what most people looked forward to. Of course hitting social issues was part of the show and it was important, but if the sci fi writing sucked, the show would never have survived. It isn't like the episodes were even steven on social issue vs non social issue.

the large majority was sci fi, political intrigue / war and conflict.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The science fiction was just a platform to explore various issues on a personal and social level through allegory. As Science and Science Fiction goes, Trek was on the soft side.

You and I will never agree on this one.

the episodes clearly add up to being a science fiction show that tackled contemporary social issue here and there. But it dealt with sci fi far more.

 

[Awesome Possum]

One quote doesn't change what the content of the episodes were and I'm pretty sure it clearly wasn't a social issue a day. it was far more science fiction that social issuey.

And I aint sayin when they did It that it wasn't deliberate, just saying it wasn't the thing every episode was based on nor does it seem the point was to tackle every social issue known to man.

I think you're missing the entire point of the show.

I certainly got an impression that she was bi, though it definitely would have been better had it been referred to in other episodes too, even if in passing. It would have been easy as Jadzia occasionally talked about her dates and past lovers.

That's why I don't see it as a homosexual relationship. She was writen as straight in every other episode. That episode is basically the trope "If it's you, it's okay, since they were established as former lovers in different bodies. Their current bodies and social rules are actually what gets in the way in the end.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You and I will never agree on this one.

the episodes clearly add up to being a science fiction show that tackled contemporary social issue here and there. But it dealt with sci fi far more.

Did it really? Was it really about exploring and extrapolating existing and theoretical science? Or did it use that to place our heroes in situation where decisions must be made and ideas about the nature of man explored?

 

[eschaton]

You and I will never agree on this one.

the episodes clearly add up to being a science fiction show that tackled contemporary social issue here and there. But it dealt with sci fi far more.

Trek's best episodes, almost without fail, were dramas which dealt with character interactions and some universal human theme. If you stripped the science fiction from them, they would be perfectly entertaining as stage plays. I'm thinking of episodes like City on the Edge of Forever, The Inner Light, In The Pale Moonlight, etc. In contrast, both the "sci-fi" episodes and the "issue" episodes ranged awful to good, but seldom went all the way up to great.

 

[Spot261]

Statistically inaccurate. Most surveys show that gays make up somewhere between 1.5% to 6% of the global population. I would go with the lower end of that. Gay lobby groups and left wing pollsters always like to over egg the pudding.

I'd tend to query your figures but in either case, that's still an awful lot of people.

All over the place.

 

[Spot261]

You and I will never agree on this one.

the episodes clearly add up to being a science fiction show that tackled contemporary social issue here and there. But it dealt with sci fi far more.

Trek rarely did sci fi at all, not in the hard sense.

Putting the characters in a flying tin can which magically defies relativity and having them meet funny people with rubber prosthetics does not make this Arthur C Clarke.

Sci fi in it's true sense is fiction based on the science, not fantasy which uses made up terms to give its magic a veneer of credibility.

A "quantum flux regulator" is no different from "aberacadabera"

 

[Kemaiku]

I'd tend to query your figures but in either case, that's still an awful lot of people.

All over the place.

Estimates are often inaccurate, but I've seen anywhere from 2-3 to 17.6% listed depending on how many identities are added to the surveys. But given even my little trans group numbers in the hundreds for this tiny country, I'm going to say it's higher than 2%...

Plus, you know, shit like this happening.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/0...nst-banning-the-death-penalty-for-gay-people/

 

[Spot261]

Estimates are often inaccurate, but I've seen anywhere from 2-3 to 17.6% listed depending on how many identities are added to the surveys. But given even my little trans group numbers in the hundreds for this tiny country, I'm going to say it's higher than 2%...

Plus, you know, shit like this happening.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/0...nst-banning-the-death-penalty-for-gay-people/

Under reporting is always an issue with surveys, especially where it comes to issues people might worry about coming back to bite them down the line. Plus the surveys used in different countries are often structured differently, with category defining criteria varying from instance to instance.

"Gay" on one survey might mean "exclusively attracted to same sex", "sexually active with same sex" on another "had ongoing same sex fantasies" in a third. For some straight might be "never had a same sex encounter", or "is currently in a heterosexual relationship"

Thus meta studies struggle with pooling data effectively and many studies have to be discarded. One common theme is identifying as "not straight" is much higher in cities and areas with a degree of anonymity, suggesting people in such environments tend to feel safer than in, for instance, rural areas or small villages. That in itself casts doubt on the veracity of surveys.

 

[Mudd]

Statistically inaccurate. Most surveys show that gays make up somewhere between 1.5% to 6% of the global population. I would go with the lower end of that.

You would be mistaken.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I don't know how many homosexuals are in the world but I know it's relatively a small percentage, but a relatively large total number

Either way the gay character on this show is a good character, for no reason involving the homosexuality, and the actor is doing a fine job.

I'm not sure him being gay has anything to do with whether the characters sucks or rocks. But I like the character.

 

[Refuge]

if you took social issues out, the sci fi that trek did was far and above better than what lost in space did, I think saying that the "reason" trek was remembered as better being social issues is a bit disingenuous. From the effects to the actual science behind the fiction it was worlds better.

Even still I think my statement is pretty apt, it was built on being an amazing science fiction show. yes it handled some social issues but still, social issues weren't what it's brand was built off of.

I don't remember anyone rushing home to watch Star Trek singing "I can't wait to see what social issue they're tackling today"

So true, that's why it appealed to different age groups including kids who didn't give a rat's arse about social issues. Nice they might have been subliminally influenced to the better ways of the Federation politics and morality etc. but it's an adventure, well was.

 

[BillJ]

I'd tend to query your figures but in either case, that's still an awful lot of people.

All over the place.

Even if it is just two percent, that's 140 million people. That's a lot of people!

 

[Spider]

You'll know Star Trek is truly progressive when we have gay Klingons.

 

[BillJ]

You'll know Star Trek is truly progressive when we have gay Klingons.

The novels already have.

 

[ria 75]

I really hope we get something more than just a video call where they call each other friends. I'm hoping that he gets an actual romance in the series. If he doesn't and that was the extent of gay expression I'll be disappointed.

Did we not watch the same episode or did this not become irrelevant at TC 23:30 of the episode?
Not that we can't argue homo screen time until we're blue in the face.
Honestly, it's up to the viewer to make out their own subtext. Not a new concept to trekkies, is it?
Besides, gay characters in TV shows are all the rage, these days. They even get romance, occasionally. Progress!
Given how Star Trek has evolved, we may even get some actual gay love... if there is any romance. You have to admit, it isn't quite the focus.

 

[Mudd]

Did it really? Was it really about exploring and extrapolating existing and theoretical science? Or did it use that to place our heroes in situation where decisions must be made and ideas about the nature of man explored?

It was a smart adventure show. It was not a treatise on anything, and was rarely that observant.

 

[Refuge]

Did it really? Was it really about exploring and extrapolating existing and theoretical science? Or did it use that to place our heroes in situation where decisions must be made and ideas about the nature of man explored?

"Our heroes" the good old days.