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1984 (the book - spoilers)

ThunderAeroI

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I must be missing something, but I dont see how this book is always referred to as legendary negative utopia. I found the book, not interesting and to a point darn right depressing.

Ok, its a negative Utopia it will be depressing I get that much, but the entire story is boring I was depressed even reading it.

I'm spending 10 hours in an airport/planes and I'm a captive audience reading this thing and I find myself wondering around thinking about anything but the book.

I can see some parallels between the book and the government, but i think thats not reason for its use. I think people scream 1984 without actually ever having read the book to begin with.

If someone actually read the book and understood the book, you would think vastly different about comparing a government today to one in the book.

First of all the government isn't even a government anymore, its a ruling party that rules not for love of its people, but for the sheer power it has and will continue to have. A government building street cameras to watch traffic can't even be a straw man argument for the telescreens in the novel.

I was really surprised to see that the "government" actualy thought of itself as evil. I was really taken back by that actually. O'Brian goes into a lot of detail as to why they "had" to be evil, but they only have to in order to keep and maintain their power.

I was happy to see that Julia wasn't a trader and didn't turn Winston in, but I did feel bad for them when O'Brian set them up. Winston fell into that trap damn hard, and as O'Brian told him, Winston knew it was as trap

Its a good story I suppose, and I can see some parallels to a Totalitarian government (say a separatist southern US government). Blocking sex and all, but you could see a totalitarian Liberal government in the same light (mandated exercises and all, somehow they can still smoke).



I suppose you could look at it one of two ways. People have got to be real sheep to fall for a government like that one in the book, and/or this type of situation just couldn't happen.
 
It's a brilliant book. One of the all-time greats. Governments approaching that level of totalitarianism have existed in the past (in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, for example) and even exist today (such as in North Korea).
 
Hmm, I think it might have been about a quarter of a century since I read that book!
;)

I seem to recall that in addition to the two way nature of the book's home video screens there was also much about the government's tight reign on the freedom of individuals and government control over the media, particularly the role of very perishable print media (all paper was formulated to break down in a few days) and frequent government revision of the official history (even of fairly recent events).

Discussion gets a little vague when the person posting doesn't mention which county's government they are talking about. I'm not sure if I should assume the OP is referring to the popularity of street surveillance CCTV in the UK as well as the book's apparent setting in the British islands. Street cameras aren't as prevalent in the US, although they are quite popular in transportation terminals and places like corporate owned retail facilities like shops and malls. The biggest controversy is over traffic enforcement cameras, especially those installed to photograph traffic light scofflaws.
 
It's been a while since I've read that book, but I enjoyed it too - it was more multilayered than some people realise. I was fascinated by Newspeak, in particular the fact that it was a language with a reducing vocabulary, and it was of course an excellent metaphor for the restrictions of freedoms imposed on the people and for the power exercised by the government that they can also try and influence the way we talk and thus restrict the way we think, the aim of which was to suppress the individual and reduce the chance of rebellion and free thinking. Then there was the concept of doublethink, holding onto and believing two contradictory thought processes at the same time (in my mind, akin to either outright deception or genuine disbelief), making it possible for the powerful Party members to completely outwit and destroy their suppressed enemies.

The good thing about the book is how it satirises the totalitarian regimes of the time (it was published in 1949), most notably Stalinist Russia with its revisionist histories (The Ministry of Truth - heh, "MiniTrue" indeed :lol: - and its propaganda machine changing documents to make anyone believe anything the Party wants it to - from who the Party's political enemies are, to whomever Oceania happens to be winning its wars against, even though it appears they may be losing at one point near the end), its mythologically powerful figurehead (substitute Big Brother for Uncle Joe - or indeed today substitute it for Kim Jong-il) and its interesting treatment of political prisoners ("erasing" them from history, breaking their mind by making them submit to Big Brother through any means necessary but most notably through that terrible thing hidden in Room 101, and then killing them). The telescreens, while prophetic in today's 24-hour surveillance world, appeared to be a metaphor for the far reaching power of the Party to root out traitors, most notably those possessing the dreaded thought crimes - the committing of which warrants a visit from the secret police, the Thought Police.

Somehow I preferred Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, as it appeared more sci-fi, speculative and satirical, and less obviously bleak than Nineteen Eighty Four. But they're both good books.
 
I think the book has lost a lot of its impact because it's no longer a plausible future. I'm not talking about the fact that the year 1984 has come and gone, I'm talking about the fact that civilization has moved in a completely different direction. Freedom has increased enormously (rather than decreased) with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the creation of the Internet. Also, I don't think the concept of doublethink was ever plausible. A person can't edit their own memories.
 
I think the book has lost a lot of its impact because it's no longer a plausible future. I'm not talking about the fact that the year 1984 has come and gone, I'm talking about the fact that civilization has moved in a completely different direction. Freedom has increased enormously (rather than decreased) with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the creation of the Internet. Also, I don't think the concept of doublethink was ever plausible. A person can't edit their own memories.

Perhaps this is part of the reason why I dont think it is realistic. I think we should look out for this type of thing in the future. Leave it to the masses to solve the problems of the few.

Keep vigalent to ensure this does not happen, although even in Freedom you can be a slave. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
 
For the record I love it; one of my favourite books. But if you find it boring you'd probably prefer the movie Equilibrium

1984 & Fahrenheit 451 for the Sunny Delight generation
 
For the record I love it; one of my favourite books. But if you find it boring you'd probably prefer the movie Equilibrium

1984 & Fahrenheit 451 for the Sunny Delight generation


I think I'll pick up 451 and A Brave New World to complete my Disatopia collection. Are there any good 'Utopia' books?
 
I am rereading 1984 right now actually. I enjoyed it because it simply makes you think. You can read a passage and then spend several minutes just sitting there thinking about what it says and what its implications are.
 
The word you are looking for is 'dystopia' which is the opposite of utopia.

The book is brilliant by the way, as is Eric Blair. You should read more of his books.
 
The word you are looking for is 'dystopia' which is the opposite of utopia.

The book is brilliant by the way, as is Eric Blair. You should read more of his books.

Thanks, I might pick up Animal farm which is suppose to be another one of his great works, too bad he died so young.
 
I just realized that it's been about ten years since I've read that book.

Good lord.

Honestly, I think Animal Farm did a much better job in showing Orwell's vision of the world and of the future. One of my biggest problems with 1984, as much as I enjoyed it, was that in the end, I really didn't give a damn about any of the characters. Orwell didn't seem to care about them either, and I think that comes across in the writing quite a bit. He was more interested in making a point than telling a story. At least, that's how it always came across to me.

And as far as that point goes, he certainly makes it and makes it with brutal, unflinching clarity. That's what I took away from the book, and that's what allowed me to enjoy it. I let go of the storytelling element, which was often lost under a pile of narrative detail that probably could have afforded to be a little more sparse and just enjoy the book for the overall vision of the future that it paints.

Because it does paint that future very, very well. If I remember correctly, most of Orwell's writing career was within journalism, and he certainly brings a strong journalist eye to painting his idea of the world.

Like I said before, I enjoyed Animal Farm more. It made the same point but had a much stronger storytelling element to it.

The two films I've seen for 1984 were really good though.
 
Personally when I read the book I'm always under the impression that there is no war at all. It's all bullshit spin by Big Bro
 
Plus, if Julia thought there was no war at all, and she worked in the FICTION DEPARTMENT i'm willing to go with Big Brother is just making it all up.

Population control and fear.
 
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