Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Its not me that does it, it is government.
Its not me that does it, it is government.
%18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing facts
- Thread starter LitmusDragon
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
It is not me that does it, it is government, and that is what I have a problem with government involvement.
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Amaris
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Even said, it's not really a mosque, and it's not right next to Ground Zero. From the satellite images of the area, there's some nice big distance between this community center (it's like the Islamic version of the YMCA). Honestly, there's no rational reason for people to get upset at any of this. It's unreasonable and driven by fear.
Even said, it's not really a mosque, and it's not right next to Ground Zero. From the satellite images of the area, there's some nice big distance between this community center (it's like the Islamic version of the YMCA). Honestly, there's no rational reason for people to get upset at any of this. It's unreasonable and driven by fear.
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Agreed. It is the epitome of American tolerance, what little there is left, to allow the center to be built.
The truth, warped by all of the opposition, isn't even recognized by half of the media. People don't hear the truth, so most of them go and act like this guy...
Agreed. It is the epitome of American tolerance, what little there is left, to allow the center to be built.
The truth, warped by all of the opposition, isn't even recognized by half of the media. People don't hear the truth, so most of them go and act like this guy...
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Amaris
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
^ Wow, that video is a great example of an ignorant, reactive person.
Of course, truth be known, people like that want to be persecuted. It gives them meaning, makes them feel like their own faith is vindicated. They thrive on such controversy, because they wish to create a war. It is the action of those who wish for their persecution fantasies to be entertained, without caring about the results their actions will have on innocents.
^ Wow, that video is a great example of an ignorant, reactive person.
Of course, truth be known, people like that want to be persecuted. It gives them meaning, makes them feel like their own faith is vindicated. They thrive on such controversy, because they wish to create a war. It is the action of those who wish for their persecution fantasies to be entertained, without caring about the results their actions will have on innocents.
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
If its a fact then why did the president have to speak on it? The only fact is that he is standing up for a Mosque at ground Zero. He should have no opinion on where a church gets built one way or the other. Would he stand for the right of someone to build a pork BBQ shack right next to that Mosque? I think not.
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Amaris
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
You never had a problem when George W. Bush spoke out about his own faith, when he specifically mentioned that Jesus guided him in his duties. Why did he have to speak out about that?
Did you know in 2000, as Governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed into law "Jesus Day" for the state of Texas? Did you have a problem with that? Probably didn't even know about it. Yet that same attitude, about Jesus guiding him was an outspoken one. George W. never hid his religion, and you never said anything about it to anyone around here or at WF the whole time.
Interesting what you decide as something objectionable, particularly when it's something you disagree with, and depending upon what President says it.
You never had a problem when George W. Bush spoke out about his own faith, when he specifically mentioned that Jesus guided him in his duties. Why did he have to speak out about that?
Did you know in 2000, as Governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed into law "Jesus Day" for the state of Texas? Did you have a problem with that? Probably didn't even know about it. Yet that same attitude, about Jesus guiding him was an outspoken one. George W. never hid his religion, and you never said anything about it to anyone around here or at WF the whole time.
Interesting what you decide as something objectionable, particularly when it's something you disagree with, and depending upon what President says it.
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
He stated that they have the right to build the community center. He is standing up for their right to build it, not for the place itself. AND ALTHOUGH HE IS NOT MUSLIM, who cares what a president's religion is? Why should it matter? The whole discussion should not take place when determining what a good leader is or is not.
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Talk about missing the point. Once again, if you make a claim, it is incumbent upon you to back up that claim with evidence in the form of links to reputable sources. You don't take the lazy way out and say "You go look it up." That's a good way to not be taken seriously here.
Secondly, you made the accusation that there were over 20 murders committed by the Church of Scientology as an organization, yet only mentioned one incident. I did your work for you and looked it up like you asked, and you aren't even right about that one incident:
1 - It was a branch of Scientology called the Flag Service Organization, and not Scientology as a whole.
2 - It was the first time Scientology had ever been charged with a crime, so where are all these other "murders"?
3 - The charges weren't murder, but rather abuse/neglect of a disabled person (she was allegedly mentally incapacitated by a car accident) and unauthorized practice of medicine. Serious crimes to be sure, but not murder.
4 - McPherson chose; while under the care of a regular hospital, to forego that care and be treated by Scientologist physicians so as to avoid a psychiatric examination.
5 - The charges were dropped because the District Attorney said they could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and because the coroner had committed serious misconduct, including: illegally changing her report and death certificate after the fact, procedural errors, and going to the press with the details of the case.
http://www.lisafiles.com/
Furthermore, how is this any different from examples of faith healing in certain Christian sects? We don't try to outlaw them; we prosecute or attempt to prosecute the individual crimes, just as we did here.
Because at the moment no one is questioning the rights of churches, synagogues, Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, etc. to be built where they want, because people seem to be perfectly fine with allowing those, as they should be. He has to address the Constitutional right to build a mosque because people seem to forget about freedom of religion when it comes to religions that are currently unpopular in some circles here.
[edit] And before someone cries "it's not a mosque!"; while that is technically correct, the top two levels of the community center are going to be a house of worship, so it's a rather silly point to get hung up on. Furthermore, just like when the question is asked if Obama is a Muslim, we should respond by saying "so what if he was?" If you're going to say it's not a mosque, which is fine, you should also say "so what if it is?" Because getting out on a technicality isn't much better when the distinction shouldn't change your argument. Whether it's a community center or mosque or a combination of both, it doesn't change that both have every right to be built there.
Talk about missing the point. Once again, if you make a claim, it is incumbent upon you to back up that claim with evidence in the form of links to reputable sources. You don't take the lazy way out and say "You go look it up." That's a good way to not be taken seriously here.
Secondly, you made the accusation that there were over 20 murders committed by the Church of Scientology as an organization, yet only mentioned one incident. I did your work for you and looked it up like you asked, and you aren't even right about that one incident:
1 - It was a branch of Scientology called the Flag Service Organization, and not Scientology as a whole.
2 - It was the first time Scientology had ever been charged with a crime, so where are all these other "murders"?
3 - The charges weren't murder, but rather abuse/neglect of a disabled person (she was allegedly mentally incapacitated by a car accident) and unauthorized practice of medicine. Serious crimes to be sure, but not murder.
4 - McPherson chose; while under the care of a regular hospital, to forego that care and be treated by Scientologist physicians so as to avoid a psychiatric examination.
5 - The charges were dropped because the District Attorney said they could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and because the coroner had committed serious misconduct, including: illegally changing her report and death certificate after the fact, procedural errors, and going to the press with the details of the case.
http://www.lisafiles.com/
Furthermore, how is this any different from examples of faith healing in certain Christian sects? We don't try to outlaw them; we prosecute or attempt to prosecute the individual crimes, just as we did here.
The Catholic Church is a minority group? Entire state-sponsored religions numbering in the tens of millions are minority groups? Religious sects with millions more followers than Scientology as a whole has are minority groups? Thanks for confirming my suspicions that you'll just make whatever excuses necessary to keep up the illusion that your argument was correct.
Quit being lazy and do your own work. Besides which, calling the world's second largest religion with over a billion and a half followers a cult that should be outlawed is the height of arrogance, delusion, and hypocrisy. If Islam is a cult, than so is every religion.
Because at the moment no one is questioning the rights of churches, synagogues, Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, etc. to be built where they want, because people seem to be perfectly fine with allowing those, as they should be. He has to address the Constitutional right to build a mosque because people seem to forget about freedom of religion when it comes to religions that are currently unpopular in some circles here.
[edit] And before someone cries "it's not a mosque!"; while that is technically correct, the top two levels of the community center are going to be a house of worship, so it's a rather silly point to get hung up on. Furthermore, just like when the question is asked if Obama is a Muslim, we should respond by saying "so what if he was?" If you're going to say it's not a mosque, which is fine, you should also say "so what if it is?" Because getting out on a technicality isn't much better when the distinction shouldn't change your argument. Whether it's a community center or mosque or a combination of both, it doesn't change that both have every right to be built there.
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Islam may indeed be a cult. Muhammed ibn Abdullah (known simply as Muhammed, PBUH) was the son of Abd Allah ibn Abd al-Muttalib. "Abd Allah" means "servant of Allah", and it would be odd indeed if Muhammed, the Arab who brought Arabs monotheism, had never heard of the pagan god Allah who his father was a servant of.
Some historians think the god worshipped in the Kaba (Beit-Allah prior to Muhammed) in Mecca was the Babylonian god Baal. Others think the high god of Mecca (out of several hundred gods) who they called Allah was the moon god Hubal.
In all likelihood, Allah did what many historians think Moses did, elevate his tribe's personal god (most pagan tribes took one of the many gods in their mythology to be their tribe's personal guide and protector) and elevated that god to the be the only one, forcing other tribes to reject their own tribal gods as false.
In any event, we know that monotheism is false because both God and Allah are adamant that we don't worship other gods. If there weren't other gods we couldn't worship them, now could we?
So although God and Allah don't agree on much, they do agree that there are many other gods out there.
Personally, I'm fond of Apophis, though Ra was pretty good in the original movie. Ironically, the last god standing was Ba'al (probably the pagan/Muslim god), but thankfully Colonel Mitchell shot him between the eyes in Stargate: Continuum.
Islam may indeed be a cult. Muhammed ibn Abdullah (known simply as Muhammed, PBUH) was the son of Abd Allah ibn Abd al-Muttalib. "Abd Allah" means "servant of Allah", and it would be odd indeed if Muhammed, the Arab who brought Arabs monotheism, had never heard of the pagan god Allah who his father was a servant of.
Some historians think the god worshipped in the Kaba (Beit-Allah prior to Muhammed) in Mecca was the Babylonian god Baal. Others think the high god of Mecca (out of several hundred gods) who they called Allah was the moon god Hubal.
In all likelihood, Allah did what many historians think Moses did, elevate his tribe's personal god (most pagan tribes took one of the many gods in their mythology to be their tribe's personal guide and protector) and elevated that god to the be the only one, forcing other tribes to reject their own tribal gods as false.
In any event, we know that monotheism is false because both God and Allah are adamant that we don't worship other gods. If there weren't other gods we couldn't worship them, now could we?
So although God and Allah don't agree on much, they do agree that there are many other gods out there.
Personally, I'm fond of Apophis, though Ra was pretty good in the original movie. Ironically, the last god standing was Ba'al (probably the pagan/Muslim god), but thankfully Colonel Mitchell shot him between the eyes in Stargate: Continuum.
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
I knew you were secretly an Obama supporter.
I knew you were secretly an Obama supporter.
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Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Oh come on. I'm not an Obama or Apophis supporter but I do appreciate how they can drive a plot line.
Take John McCain, Steve Forbes, Mitt Romney, or any of a dozen failed snooze-fests. Electing them would subject us to something like season 9 and 10 with the Ori or most of Stargate Atlantis with the Wraith. Boring, boring, and more boring because the enemy has no real personality. Sarah Palin would've been fascinating because she's hot and has lots of kids, like Hathor, and G.W. Bush was great because he was like O'Neill, already above his pay-grade but having fun kicking butt and someone you'd like to drink beer with.
My problem with Muslims isn't their bizarre religion, it's their insistence that it be treated not just with respect but reverance, with the threat of consequences haning over anyone who doesn't. Do they even know where they are? The West has spent the past century making fun of religion as a cheap sport. Muhammed is going to get ass-raped and exposed as an open bigamist pedophile and closet homosexual.
Stupider still is their idea that they'll convert the West to Islam. We can't even convert an Episcopalian into a Methodist, much less a Musllim. Muhammed tied Islam to the Old Testament and early Christian texts, which we discredit like we were crack monkeys swatting mosquitos in a Louisianna swamp. If the Jews say big parts of their history (cited in the Koran) is utter bullshit, and the Christians say that big parts of their history (cited in the Koran) is utter bullshit, it will be pretty hard for Muslims to insist that the Jews and Christians are wrong about parts of their holy books being bullshit. Ergo, big parts of the Koran are total bullshit.
The 7th Century is taking on the 21st, and the 7th Century is going down. We just have to get over our reflexive fear of offending people, of being called racists, bigots, and other such things, and treat Muslims with all the respect we give to Baptist fundamentalists.
Oh come on. I'm not an Obama or Apophis supporter but I do appreciate how they can drive a plot line.
Take John McCain, Steve Forbes, Mitt Romney, or any of a dozen failed snooze-fests. Electing them would subject us to something like season 9 and 10 with the Ori or most of Stargate Atlantis with the Wraith. Boring, boring, and more boring because the enemy has no real personality. Sarah Palin would've been fascinating because she's hot and has lots of kids, like Hathor, and G.W. Bush was great because he was like O'Neill, already above his pay-grade but having fun kicking butt and someone you'd like to drink beer with.
My problem with Muslims isn't their bizarre religion, it's their insistence that it be treated not just with respect but reverance, with the threat of consequences haning over anyone who doesn't. Do they even know where they are? The West has spent the past century making fun of religion as a cheap sport. Muhammed is going to get ass-raped and exposed as an open bigamist pedophile and closet homosexual.
Stupider still is their idea that they'll convert the West to Islam. We can't even convert an Episcopalian into a Methodist, much less a Musllim. Muhammed tied Islam to the Old Testament and early Christian texts, which we discredit like we were crack monkeys swatting mosquitos in a Louisianna swamp. If the Jews say big parts of their history (cited in the Koran) is utter bullshit, and the Christians say that big parts of their history (cited in the Koran) is utter bullshit, it will be pretty hard for Muslims to insist that the Jews and Christians are wrong about parts of their holy books being bullshit. Ergo, big parts of the Koran are total bullshit.
The 7th Century is taking on the 21st, and the 7th Century is going down. We just have to get over our reflexive fear of offending people, of being called racists, bigots, and other such things, and treat Muslims with all the respect we give to Baptist fundamentalists.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Yeah, and brown people should be grateful when you don't bomb them too.
Yeah, and brown people should be grateful when you don't bomb them too.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
Or we could go with "she should be grateful she doesn't get raped wearing that". It's the same sentiment, with the same misguided sense of ethics. No, you don't get a cookie for not doing the wrong thing.
Or we could go with "she should be grateful she doesn't get raped wearing that". It's the same sentiment, with the same misguided sense of ethics. No, you don't get a cookie for not doing the wrong thing.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
The only other ways I can read the statement are:
1. "Hey, we're superior to the Islamic theocracies!" Which may be true, but is rather like flattering oneself by comparing one's vocabulary with that of a chipmunk.
2. "We're on the edge here; give us another 9/11 and we'll just start stuffing you lot into camps like we did with the Japanese."
The only other ways I can read the statement are:
1. "Hey, we're superior to the Islamic theocracies!" Which may be true, but is rather like flattering oneself by comparing one's vocabulary with that of a chipmunk.
2. "We're on the edge here; give us another 9/11 and we'll just start stuffing you lot into camps like we did with the Japanese."
Rii
Rear Admiral
Re: %18 of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, and other disturbing fac
The sentiment is the same. You don't allow a Mosque or tolerate a religion, that implies that there is a default or at the very least legitimate position in refusing to allow the Mosque or being intolerant of the religion. It's the language of authoritarianism, not liberty.
The sentiment is the same. You don't allow a Mosque or tolerate a religion, that implies that there is a default or at the very least legitimate position in refusing to allow the Mosque or being intolerant of the religion. It's the language of authoritarianism, not liberty.