16-year-old girl arrested for hitting father who was spanking her

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I believe I can safely state this: If a parent feels the need to use a belt on his/her child; that parent is in serious need of lessons on how to deal with children.

Really. Even the most energy-leeching problem child doesn't need a belt as a correctional measure; simple understanding goes a long way. I know from experience.

 

[SeerSGB]

Also if this type of punishment is so effective, why does it only seem to apply to those under 18? It couldn't be because they have less rights and so can be treated as less than human is it?

To put it another way: If it works, why isn't it used in prisons and jails as a correctional tool?

It was used for thousands of years. its only been within recent times where people have stopped using by saying it was inhumane

That's sort of the point though: it was and is ineffective as a punish in general.

 

[RyanKCR]

To put it another way: If it works, why isn't it used in prisons and jails as a correctional tool?

It was used for thousands of years. its only been within recent times where people have stopped using by saying it was inhumane

That's sort of the point though: it was and is ineffective as a punish in general.

Actually you're missing the point. There is a trend today that punishment should not ever be used with children, it doesn't work. A lot of this was taken from Pavlov. Corporal punishment just happens to be the current whipping boy of the anti-punishment crowd.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

False. This was about respect for authority and she had none. You disrepect authority and you get punished. That's life.

Do you jerk off to footage of protesters getting beat down by cops, or does your heart condition preclude that?

Look, I don't agree with his POV either, but this comment was a bit much don't you think? Let's try and remain civil please.

Corporal punishment just happens to be the current whipping boy of the anti-punishment crowd.

You didn't really think this statement through very well before typing it, did you?

 

[SeerSGB]

It was used for thousands of years. its only been within recent times where people have stopped using by saying it was inhumane

That's sort of the point though: it was and is ineffective as a punish in general.

Actually you're missing the point. There is a trend today that punishment should not ever be used with children, it doesn't work. A lot of this was taken from Pavlov. Corporal punishment just happens to be the current whipping boy of the anti-punishment crowd.

Oh the noes, the liberals that actually want to talk to their kids and understand why the child's acting the way they are before handing out a ineffectual punishment that addresses a symptom and not the cause, the bastards!

 

[royalfan5]

I believe that belts should only be used to administer spankings between consenting adults.

 

[QCzar]

It was used for thousands of years. its only been within recent times where people have stopped using by saying it was inhumane

We had slavery for thousands of years as well, didn't we? Oh yeah, and there was that whole women are 1/4 human chattel thing. Remember that one? For most of human history, no one would have thought for a moment to make an issue of men beating women to discipline them. In some parts of Africa and Asia little girls have been having their genitals brutally mutilated for thousands of years (and probably elsewhere "thousands of years" ago).

For thousands of years men and women have done all kinds of cruel, horrible, despicable things to each-other, justifying it only by saying that it has been done that way since as long as they could remember. But with freedom of thought and freedom of expression comes the responsibility to question all of our assumptions about ourselves. About what is right and what is truly fair.

We still have a lot to answer for and many questions remain. As with the aforementioned slavery and abuse of women, we may be reaching a point in our collective introspection where current and future generations will ask themselves whether it is truly noble and representative of an enlightened people to use violence as an instrument of child-rearing (especially regarding adolescents).

Whether we are truly making them better people for it or are instead clinging to outdated notions that are "right" merely for circular reasons (because "they are right"). Whether there are truly no better ways. I don't pretend to know the ultimate answer, but I know that defending any practice of human nature by simply lauding its staying power is the opposite of enlightened thought. It is intransigence disguised as wisdom, borne not of true self-analysis but acceptance of "the way of things".

Sometimes, the way of things is wrong.

 

[Lookingglassman]

My mom used to beat me with extension chords, but I never thought about hitting her. I was too busy trying to get away.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I sincerely hope, with all my heart, that those defending the use of belts and/or other materials in disciplining children don't have, and never will have, any children of their own, or any under their care, even for one minute.

 

[Thestral]

That's sort of the point though: it was and is ineffective as a punish in general.

On you, and a select number of people. Don't presume all things are ineffective against all people, especially when you have people right here telling you that corporal punishment was a useful disciplinary method that helped them grow into a functional member of society.

 

[Jan]

But with freedom of thought and freedom of expression comes the responsibility to question all of our assumptions about ourselves. About what is right and what is truly fair.

<snip>

I don't pretend to know the ultimate answer, but I know that defending any practice of human nature by simply lauding its staying power is the opposite of enlightened thought. It is intransigence disguised as wisdom, borne not of true self-analysis but acceptance of "the way of things".

Sometimes, the way of things is wrong.

Very nicely said, QCzar thank you!

The only other thing I would point out to those who approve of belting is that yes, it probably does foster obedience in some kids/adolescents but obedience is not respect. Nor is fear or even resentment respect. Respect is something that is earned by the parent and given by the child. It's not something that can be forced from outside.

Come to think of it, neither can morals. They can be taught and demonstrated, but never forced or they're simply not real.

Jan

 

[hellsgate]

I agree with Jan, but I also agree with the kid fighting back.

No-one lays hands or belts on me or I start cleaning house. He has to sleep sometime and the dad's likely not the kind to wear a solid steel athletic cup.

But, she DOES have some personal responsibility in acting-out via destroying/vandalizing private property. Once she began going nuts, the Dad should've called the cops & kept his hands to himself.

Keep your belt on and keep a camcorder handy to document everything. That way, you're absolutely in the clear for injury liability and can focus on getting the child help for dealing with her absolute lack of personal accountability, and the Dad can access some help in coping with an out of control daughter.

 

[sidious618]

I believe that belts should only be used to administer spankings between consenting adults.

I can get behind this.

 

[RyanKCR]

That's sort of the point though: it was and is ineffective as a punish in general.

On you, and a select number of people. Don't presume all things are ineffective against all people, especially when you have people right here telling you that corporal punishment was a useful disciplinary method that helped them grow into a functional member of society.

Another false impression that the anti-punishment crowd gives is that spankings is the only thing that these kinds of parents do. If spanking is all that they do then they would have a point but spankings are not used 24/7 as they would have you to believe but it is used in only specific situations. Talking and resoning with a child of a certain age is appropriate but there are times that that will not work and you need to be able to discern that.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Another false impression that the anti-punishment crowd gives is that [..]

There is no such thing as an "anti-punishment crowd" in this discussion. The most you could get is an "anti-physical abuse" crowd, since punishing can be done in lots of ways, most of don't involve any sort of abuse. Well, actually, there is an "anti-punishment crowd", but those methods have since been debunked.

 

[Hoser]

Corporal punishment just happens to be the current whipping boy of the anti-punishment crowd.

That has to be my favourite statement of the week, if not the year.

Iohknow. I think spankings are necessary early in life, but once you can reason with a child they should fall by the wayside. And they shouldn't be administered in anger, or with tools....

 

[Silanda]

On you, and a select number of people. Don't presume all things are ineffective against all people, especially when you have people right here telling you that corporal punishment was a useful disciplinary method that helped them grow into a functional member of society.

So they say, although they really have no idea how they would have turned out if different punishments had been applied. Also, it's much easier for people to entertain the idea that they were helped by their parents rather than being physically abused by them. Even in seriously abusive relationships between adults, the abused often creates bizzare rationalizations for being abused.

EDIT: On the same line of thinking, if corporal punishement is so effective, why the lack of vocal new converts? Why are the only people who seem to be wildly in favour of it the same ones who recieved it themselves?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Another false impression that the anti-punishment crowd gives is that spankings is the only thing that these kinds of parents do. If spanking is all that they do then they would have a point but spankings are not used 24/7 as they would have you to believe but it is used in only specific situations. Talking and resoning with a child of a certain age is appropriate but there are times that that will not work and you need to be able to discern that.

There are other forms of discipline that do not require one talks with or reason with a child. Methods I favoured were

Time Out- usually for my children this meant standing in the corner. On one occasion when we were at a park and one of my sons misbehaved he was made to stand by a tree about 20 feet from us. My children never argued about this sort of punishment. Once I pointed to a corner the child knew I meant business. Though it is best if you can tell a child how many minutes are going to be in the corner It is also OK to say "stand in the corner until you stop screaming.

Deprivement - punishing a child by taking something off him or depriving him of an outing. For this to work one must stick to theire guns and make sure the punishment is carried out exactly as you said it would be. No giving the object back to the child early and no making the punishment overly severe. It is no good saying "I will take your Playsation off you until you kearn to behave", rather you say I will take the Playstation off you until 6pm tomorrow".

 

[rahullak]

It sounded to me as if the father lost control of himself when his daughter started verbally assaulting him. Must have said something so hurtful, that he couldn't take it anymore.

This does not justify his actions though. He might've used other forms of punishment, including withholding allowance, threatening to call the cops himself etc. His actions have done more harm to the child than good.
(His actions in this situation as well as in rearing his daughter to this point represent a failure as a parent.)

I would agree that corporal punishment in the form of slapping/spanking is acceptable only to a certain age, and definitely NOT acceptable for a man against his teenage daughter (step-daughter, adopted daughter and other relations where the girl is dependent on the man).

Having said the above, every situation is unique and general rules won't always work. In this case, the girl apparently has a history of breaking the law, and having seen the scratches on the man's face the deputy did the only thing he could do and had the girl arrested.

IMO, as a parent the father should now consider having the charges dropped in exchange for acceptance on the part of the daughter to undergo some kind of rehab/discipline program for kids and also do the extra community service that she'd refused earlier. If all goes well, that little episode will soon be behind them and they have a good laugh about how crazy it was later.

On a side note on corporal punishment for kids, it cannot be completely discarded since as we all know, people learn by example and for kids the learning is exponential in their early years. I think its a primal instinct to fear physical reprisal, and teaching kids that some things they do are just unacceptable by slapping them in order to draw attention to this is not a bad thing.

Would we really want children to get the idea that there are no consequences for their actions or learn the hard way by being punished publicly (such as being arrested, etc.) ?

 

[freak]

I don't think you're an adult until you reach the age of 18 years. And it's not illegal to spank children if they're outta control or talking back to you. Some of these kids need some sense knocked into them cause they can get away with practically murder these days. I'm glad they have the CMT show "World's Strictest Parents" or else these kids would just go nuts.