15 year gap between TMP and TWOK

[Pauln6]

Yes I think the medical team could well require a surgeon, a pathologist, a dentist, a pharmacist, and a psychiatrist (maybe as a resuly of Dr Denher's work) plus two spare MDs, the nurses, the lab staff, and the med techs. I wish Dr Noel had come back for next year's Xmas party...

I do think TWoK era Trek started to slide into a more cartoonish take for the franchise. It worked really well in STII but I think the success of the camp turn in STIV led them to send themselves up a bit too much after that. While STV & STVI are enjoyable they really did become caricatures of what people expected the characters to be. There is an awful lot of silly stuff in the movies - especially V & VI!

 

[Christopher]

I would think that Helen Noel would primarily serve the mental health needs of the crew. She may not have been aboard all that long, maybe serving on a 6 or 8 month assignment as part of McCoy's staff. All we know for sure is that she was at last year's X-mas party and had some sort of holiday cheer with Kirk

We know exactly what sort -- they danced, they talked about the stars, and that was it. The scenes of them getting physical were purely a fantasy Helen created in Kirk's mind with the neural neutralizer. That was made very explicit in the dialogue, but somehow people get confused and think Kirk and Helen actually had a romantic interlude.

 

[gottacook]

It worked really well in STII but I think the success of the camp turn in STIV led them to send themselves up a bit too much after that. While STV & STVI are enjoyable they really did become caricatures of what people expected the characters to be. There is an awful lot of silly stuff in the movies - especially V & VI!

Yay, another new tangent: (intentional) silliness and its place in Star Trek. I think the occasional silliness in TUC was quite all right given the foreknowledge that this was to be the final film with the full original cast. By contrast, the silliness in TFF was inexcusable, and the fact that TVH was a big hit shouldn't have constituted sufficient reason to include it. A search for god at the center of the galaxy should have been a serious topic to be treated seriously. The movie might have been a success done that way.

The James Bond movies, too, began with a serious tone (Dr. No), then the occasional silly moment crept in, and eventually (starting with, I suppose, Diamonds Are Forever in 1971) the Bond movies themselves became silly, for decades.

 

[Jose Tyler]

I would think that Helen Noel would primarily serve the mental health needs of the crew. She may not have been aboard all that long, maybe serving on a 6 or 8 month assignment as part of McCoy's staff. All we know for sure is that she was at last year's X-mas party and had some sort of holiday cheer with Kirk

We know exactly what sort -- they danced, they talked about the stars, and that was it. The scenes of them getting physical were purely a fantasy Helen created in Kirk's mind with the neural neutralizer. That was made very explicit in the dialogue, but somehow people get confused and think Kirk and Helen actually had a romantic interlude.

I am not entirely certain that something physical didn't happen at one point after the x-mas party. The initial scene between the two is full of non-verbal cues that would seem to indicate otherwise. They may have only danced and talked about the stars at the X-Mas party, but who knows about New Years Eve. Either that, or "talked about the stars" is some sort of 23rd century euphemism...

 

[Christopher]

^What those nonverbal cues indicate is that Kirk was very embarrassed about even flirting with a member of his crew. Kirk has gained this latter-day reputation as an irrepressible horndog, but that's not the way he was written and portrayed in the first season. He was presented there as an ultra-serious military man with no time for romance. In "Mudd's Women" he was the only crewman other than Spock who wasn't significantly affected by the women's allure. "Miri" made it clear that he paid no romantic attention to Rand whatsoever even though she wanted him to -- and the only times before that he'd shown any sign of interest in her had been when he wasn't himself, in "The Enemy Within" and "The Naked Time" (and in the latter case he was just lamenting about how his duties made it impossible for him to be involved with a woman).

Even in "Dagger of the Mind," it's clear how coldly professional he is toward his female crew. Even though Dr. Adams has brainwashed Kirk to believe he's madly in love with Helen, it only takes a momentary effort for him to shake it off and then coldly order her to crawl through a tunnel lined with highly lethal power conduits, even after she tells him she has no prior experience with such systems. The episode makes it clear, if you look at it objectively instead of through the filter of our modern preconceptions about Kirk, that showing romantic interest in a member of his crew is wildly out of character for him as he was portrayed at the time. He was a soldier, a professional. In the first season, just about the only times we saw him showing interest in a woman were when he was under abnormal influence, when he was manipulating a woman with feigned romance in pursuit of a goal (as in "The Conscience of the King"), or when the romance was something from years in his past, before he became a starship captain (Ruth, Areel). When Kirk fell in love with Edith Keeler in "City on the Edge," it was supposed to be a big deal, something exceptional and meaningful.

Remember, TOS was intended to be a naturalistic portrayal of people living and working in space. These weren't meant to be melodramatic characters, but believable professionals. And professionals don't get involved with their subordinates. The driven, ultra-professional Kirk of the first season would've found it highly inappropriate to show romantic interest in a woman under his command. That's why he refused to look at Rand, why he even objected (as stated in "The Corbomite Maneuver") to being assigned a female yeoman in the first place. He absolutely NEVER, under any circumstances, would've made out or made love with Helen Noel if he'd been in his right mind, because it would've been unprofessional (and, by modern standards, it would've been sexual harrassment). So even just dancing and flirting with her at the Christmas party was enough to make him feel very uncomfortable when he had to work with her later.

 

[Timo]

...Or then he did slip this once, which is why he's so damn embarrassed about it, and even (subconsciously or consciously) hopes that she'll fry herself in the line of duty...

We can't always stick to the original writing concepts and pretend that the 2260s are a direct repetition of the 1960s, only with rayguns. We can't even be sure about what the original writers thought - perhaps their agenda was one of furthering the appreciation of sadomasochist homosexuality, and they did it by dropping hints that they hoped the censors wouldn't catch or mind?

Seeing Kirk as an absolute abstainer is no more credible than seeing him as an absolute horndog. A slip here, another there would probably just support rather than undermine his image as somebody uncertain of his professionalism unless he artificially reinforced it by mannerisms such as turning a cold shoulder at women once things get personal.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

I agree that Kirk was portrayed as a man with no time for romance which made any serious relationship a big deal for him. I do think they made too much of the attraction to Rand early on and they boxed themselves into a corner with it. In fact, Noel was brought in partly as a substitute for Rand because it was felt that if Rand had been the one hypnotising Kirk to love her it would have a lot of potential fall-out.

I think the modern military might also have rules about married couples serving together in the same unit? It's also one of the reasons some people are uncomfortable with Spock/Uhura. Although TOS and TNG showed us that there is no bar to serving in Starfleet as a couple TNG also showed us the pitfalls of such a dynamic.

Still, it's only sexual harassmant if the attention is unwanted...

What is stranger is that in most of the movies there is never any indication (until Demora and the Antonia retcon) that any of the crew have any family lives at all.

 

[Jose Tyler]

...Or then he did slip this once, which is why he's so damn embarrassed about it, and even (subconsciously or consciously) hopes that she'll fry herself in the line of duty...

We can't always stick to the original writing concepts and pretend that the 2260s are a direct repetition of the 1960s, only with rayguns. We can't even be sure about what the original writers thought - perhaps their agenda was one of furthering the appreciation of sadomasochist homosexuality, and they did it by dropping hints that they hoped the censors wouldn't catch or mind?

Seeing Kirk as an absolute abstainer is no more credible than seeing him as an absolute horndog. A slip here, another there would probably just support rather than undermine his image as somebody uncertain of his professionalism unless he artificially reinforced it by mannerisms such as turning a cold shoulder at women once things get personal.

Timo Saloniemi

I'd argue that Timo's interpretation is closer to reality. Kirk evidently had some reputation as a ladies man in Season 1. Miss Piper in the Menagerie Pt 1 knew that Kirk had some "dealings" with Helen Johansson, and whatever happened made for a slightly embarrassing encounter. The fact that at some point in his early career he fathered David Marcus would indicate he was not a focused on his professionalism 100% of the time. Remember, according to Carol Marcus, Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a Boy Scout...

 

[Hartzilla2007]

...Or then he did slip this once, which is why he's so damn embarrassed about it, and even (subconsciously or consciously) hopes that she'll fry herself in the line of duty...

We can't always stick to the original writing concepts and pretend that the 2260s are a direct repetition of the 1960s, only with rayguns. We can't even be sure about what the original writers thought - perhaps their agenda was one of furthering the appreciation of sadomasochist homosexuality, and they did it by dropping hints that they hoped the censors wouldn't catch or mind?

Seeing Kirk as an absolute abstainer is no more credible than seeing him as an absolute horndog. A slip here, another there
would probably just support rather than undermine his image as
somebody uncertain of his professionalism unless he artificially
reinforced it by mannerisms such as turning a cold shoulder at
women once things get personal.

Timo Saloniemi

I'd argue that Timo's interpretation is closer to reality. Kirk evidently had some reputation as a ladies man in Season 1. Miss Piper in the Menagerie Pt 1 knew that Kirk had some "dealings" with Helen Johansson, and whatever happened made
for a slightly embarrassing encounter. The fact that at some
point in his early career he fathered David Marcus would indicate
he was not a focused on his professionalism 100% of the time.
Remember, according to Carol Marcus, Jim Kirk was many
things, but he was never a Boy Scout...

Plus TOS showed that he had a significant number of exes and possible exes that he occasionally bumped into at starbases and outposts the Enterprise visited.

 

[Christopher]

In fact, Noel was brought in partly as a substitute for Rand because it was felt that if Rand had been the one hypnotising Kirk to love her it would have a lot of potential fall-out.

Umm, couldn't it be because Dr. Noel was actually qualified to operate the equipment, while Rand, a mere yeoman, wouldn't be expected to have that ability?

Still, it's only sexual harassmant if the attention is unwanted...

When there's a power imbalance, when one of the people involved has direct authority over the other, then it's still inappropriate whether it's unwelcome or not. You just can't have a healthy relationship if one partner has that much power over the other. Even if the lower-ranked partner is theoretically receptive, their freedom of choice could be compromised by their subordinate position, their inclination to obey a superior. Romancing someone under your direct authority is an ethically gray area at best, and generally best avoided altogether.

Kirk evidently had some reputation as a ladies man in Season 1. Miss Piper in the Menagerie Pt 1 knew that Kirk had some "dealings" with Helen Johansson, and whatever happened made for a slightly embarrassing encounter. The fact that at some point in his early career he fathered David Marcus would indicate he was not a focused on his professionalism 100% of the time. Remember, according to Carol Marcus, Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a Boy Scout...

Well, yes, of course, and I've acknowledged Ruth and Areel. My point is not that Kirk was entirely sexless, but that he was a driven professional in his role as a starship captain. While he'd had relationships in the past, and may have had occasional dalliances while off-duty, his focus in his role as a starship captain was firmly on his responsibilities and he didn't consider it possible or appropriate to have relations with members of his own crew.

After all, we're all different people in different circumstances. The way we behave in our private lives and the way we behave in our professions can be completely different. And first-season TOS made it abundantly clear that Kirk as a starship captain was serious and driven with no time for romantic distractions, even if he was still a healthy red-blooded male in other circumstances when his responsibilities didn't get in the way. If he were off-duty, on shore leave, he might have a dalliance with a female officer from a different starship. But he wouldn't get involved with a woman under his own command. He refused to do so with Rand, despite clearly wanting to, so he sure as hell wouldn't have done so with Noel.

 

[Pauln6]

In fact, Noel was brought in partly as a substitute for Rand because it was felt that if Rand had been the one hypnotising Kirk to love her it would have a lot of potential fall-out.

Umm, couldn't it be because Dr. Noel was actually qualified to operate the equipment, while Rand, a mere yeoman, wouldn't be expected to have that ability?

Still, it's only sexual harassmant if the attention is unwanted...

When there's a power imbalance, when one of the people involved has direct authority over the other, then it's still inappropriate whether it's unwelcome or not. You just can't have a healthy relationship if one partner has that much power over the other. Even if the lower-ranked partner is theoretically receptive, their freedom of choice could be compromised by their subordinate position, their inclination to obey a superior. Romancing someone under your direct authority is an ethically gray area at best, and generally best avoided altogether.

But he wouldn't get involved with a woman under his own command. He refused to do so with Rand, despite clearly wanting to, so he sure as hell wouldn't have done so with Noel.

Well obviously the plot was adjusted to fit the new character. If they had decided to use McCoy, no doubt he would not have been trying to convince Kirk that they had done it at the Xmas party.

I agree that a relationship with somebody under your direct command is a bad idea. But it's not sexual harassment unless one of the parties is unwilling. In fact, the junior officer could harass the senior officer, although it would obviously be a lot easier for the senior officer to remedy the situation.

Troi and Riker rekindled their relationship when they joined the Enterprise (seen in flashback) and Troi decided that it was a bad idea while they were stationed on the same ship (although she lapsed a few times).

The dynamic with Noel was clearly that familiar morning after dynamic that arises from far too many office parties. It was speaking to the audience with its tongue in cheek rather than saying a lot about Kirk's morality.

I still think it's a shame that post-TMP didn't put any effort into allowing the charcters' relationships outside the crew during that intervening 15 years.

 

[Christopher]

Well obviously the plot was adjusted to fit the new character.

How is that obvious? Is there any evidence to support your claim that Noel was specifically intended to take Rand's place in the story? You're stating this as a fact, but what are your sources?

The dynamic with Noel was clearly that familiar morning after dynamic that arises from far too many office parties. It was speaking to the audience with its tongue in cheek rather than saying a lot about Kirk's morality.

I don't think it's "clearly" anything of the kind. And I'm not talking about Kirk's morality, I'm talking about the consistency of his characterization in the first season. I'm talking about the James Kirk who was the only human male on the Enterprise who was uninterested in Mudd's women because he was so fixated on his duty, who saw them only as an annoying disruption to the ship's operation. The James Kirk who objected to being assigned a female yeoman and who consciously avoided showing any romantic interest in her even though she wanted it. Who, when intoxicated by the Psi 2000 virus, lamented that his duties wouldn't allow him to get involved with a woman. Who only seduces Lenore Karidian as a manipulative ploy to expose a murderer. Who only needs ten seconds to shake off his illusory love for Helen Noel and coldly order her to risk her life. This portrayal is consistent throughout the season, and in the context of that, the logical interpretation of "Dagger of the Mind" is that Kirk was so driven, serious, and professional toward his crew that he was embarrassed merely for having danced and flirted lightly with a woman under his command.

Today we see Kirk in a different way because of how his characterization was adjusted later on by network pressure (and perhaps actor pressure) to make him more of a romantic lead. But at the time "Dagger of the Mind" was written, that is not how James Kirk was perceived by the writers. At the time, only ten episodes into Shatner's tenure in the role, they were basically writing him the same as Christopher Pike -- duty-driven, serious, full of self-doubt, keeping his more personal urges buried under his military discipline. It was the influence of Shatner's personality over time that evolved him into a more distinct character, but this early in the process, that evolution had barely begun.

Besides, Helen Noel's dialogue is unambiguous: "At the Christmas party, we met, we danced, you talked about the stars. I suggest now that it happened in a different way. You swept me off my feet and carried me to your cabin." It doesn't get any clearer than that: nothing happened at the Christmas party. Hell, I doubt the network censors would've allowed the episode to get away with claiming otherwise.

I still think it's a shame that post-TMP didn't put any effort into allowing the charcters' relationships outside the crew during that intervening 15 years.

Well, Sulu did manage to have a daughter somewhere in there. And we've established that the TMP-TWOK gap is quasi-officially set at 12 years, not 15.

 

[Timo]

Hell, I doubt the network censors would've allowed the episode to get away with claiming otherwise.

That's rather the point: we're not obligated to view the episodes through the eyes of the censors. If it better fits Kirk's character that there was some mutual groping that evening, then we certainly have the right to read that from the dialogue and body language.

In addition to using his charm as a weapon against female adversaries, Kirk has been established to romantically interact with his underlings. Might be he thinks he's supposed to charm them and then stop short of first base (or second base, or whatever), whereas everybody else at the Captain's Table thinks he's just an idiot who hides behind regulations. But might also be that he does seriously date those underlings of his that he considers likely prospects for a lasting relationship, only shying away from the less serious type of affair because of professional reasons... And it's just that he gets disappointed a lot in his quest for a lasting relationship, and Noel is one of his more embarrassing false starts.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Well obviously the plot was adjusted to fit the new character.

How is that obvious? Is there any evidence to support your claim that Noel was specifically intended to take Rand's place in the story? You're stating this as a fact, but what are your sources?

There was an interview with Grace Lee Whitney a while back and she claimed that she had been told that they decided not to use Rand in the episode because it would have brought Kirk's and Rand's feeling too much to the fore (I think they did that too much in The Naked Time and Miri anyway). That doesn't necessarily mean that the story was originally written for Rand but it demonstrates that it was a consideration.

Rand was also in earlier drafts of the City on the Edge of Forever written before they fired Grace. I doubt that Rand would have been placed in charge of the security team like Uhura - I suspect that was adjusted both because she was an officer and because, in the sixties, it was deliciously subversive to place the black woman in charge of the white men. On the other hand, Uhura's line about being afraid may have been one thing they did not change as it would have sounded more natural coming out of Rand's mouth and many people have grumbled about that over the years. We didn't know that Rand could fly the ship or operate transporters until she was required to do that as part of a plot.

In STVI, the Excelsior's idea to track the gaseous anomalies of the cloaked ship was tweaked and given over to the Enterprise even though it had been established earlier that Excelsior had such equipment. Enterprise was not established to have such equipment until Uhura said so - a simple tweak in the plot by a simple adjustment to the script. So in other words, if Rand had been used instead, the script could have been adjusted so that she observed how to use the machine in an earlier scene or they could have alluded to a previous posting where she had such experience.

The dynamic with Noel was clearly that familiar morning after dynamic that arises from far too many office parties. It was speaking to the audience with its tongue in cheek rather than saying a lot about Kirk's morality.

I don't think it's "clearly" anything of the kind. And I'm not talking about Kirk's morality, I'm talking about the consistency of his characterization in the first season.

Besides, Helen Noel's dialogue is unambiguous: "At the Christmas party, we met, we danced, you talked about the stars. I suggest now that it happened in a different way. You swept me off my feet and carried me to your cabin." It doesn't get any clearer than that: nothing happened at the Christmas party. Hell, I doubt the network censors would've allowed the episode to get away with claiming otherwise.

It's clear to anybody who has ever been to a party like that! I just feel sorry for you if haven't! It's true that character consistency can be a problem in episodic TV. But real people are not consistent either and a moment of weakness while under the influence at a Christmas party could be described as out of character for a real person so I don't think it would be right to say it represents a lack of character consistency from a writing perspective.

Off track, at one of my employers' Xmas parties, the young receptionist got really drunk and offered to give my married boss a bj (he turned her down). That's not the sort of thing she did during office hours!

Innuendo in an episode is there precisely so that adult viewers can read what they choose between the lines without offending the children or the censors. Just because Kirk didn't take her back to his cabin does not prove conclusively that something more than is stated specifically didn't happen between them. That's part of the fun - to each their ownv interpretation. Personally, I always read it as he had been a bit drunk and was a bit fuzzy on the exact details and she knew that and was deliberately and playfully making him squirm by being vague herself. Kirk seems to view it as an incident that weakens his authority over her and she likes having that power.

I still think it's a shame that post-TMP didn't put any effort into allowing the charcters' relationships outside the crew during that intervening 15 years.

Well, Sulu did manage to have a daughter somewhere in there. And we've established that the TMP-TWOK gap is quasi-officially set at 12 years, not 15.

Sorry - yeah 12 years. Demora might only have been brought in because Takei turned down a chance to appear though. It would have been nice to see someone other thank Kirk at least mention a partner or children in one of the movies. There are rumours that the older actors were apprehensive about younger actors coming in and usurping them in future movies. I wonder if that was why the writers avoided the subject - because they knew the actors would have railed at bringing in the next generation until after they had officially retired?

 

[Maurice]

In STVI, the Excelsior's idea to track the gaseous anomalies of the cloaked ship was tweaked and given over to the Enterprise even though it had been established earlier that Excelsior had such equipment.

Uh, wrong. The script directly addresses this. It was cut, hence the seeming discrepancy.

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...
​

​

 

[Pauln6]

In STVI, the Excelsior's idea to track the gaseous anomalies of the cloaked ship was tweaked and given over to the Enterprise even though it had been established earlier that Excelsior had such equipment.

Uh, wrong. The script directly addresses this. It was cut, hence the seeming discrepancy.

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...​

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...​

​

I had read that in an earlier draft, they thought about the Excelsior coming up with the idea and that at some stage a decision was taken to change this to the Enterprise. I have no idea at what stage the decision was taken - it was simply a consideration. The cut scene certainly sets us up for the later scene but it is just another example of the kind of scene I was talking about. Something put into the plot to help justify the later scene. I wish they'd left it in - it certainly makes the later scene less jarring. So Enterprise has equipment on board - they use it later on. Rand sees the equipment being operated - she uses it later on. It isn't much of a stretch storywise.

Having said this, I really like Noel as a character. The flirtatious dynamic between her and Kirk was more fun than the sad pining between Kirk and Rand. I would have been very happy to see her appear again.

 

[Christopher]

It's clear to anybody who has ever been to a party like that! I just feel sorry for you if haven't! It's true that character consistency can be a problem in episodic TV. But real people are not consistent either and a moment of weakness while under the influence at a Christmas party could be described as out of character for a real person so I don't think it would be right to say it represents a lack of character consistency from a writing perspective.

What I'm saying is that it represents a misunderstanding from the modern viewer's perspective. Today, we have certain preconceptions about who Captain James T. Kirk is, preconceptions shaped by all three seasons of the TV show (particularly the later ones where he became more of a womanizer because that's what '60s TV heroes were expected to be), the movies, and decades of tie-ins, fanfiction, and comedy skits and parodies exaggerating certain traits of the character (not to mention Shatner's increasingly self-parodic media image). So we have an image of Kirk that's mythologized and somewhat caricatured, and if we impose those modern assumptions on an episode like "Dagger of the Mind," we're not understanding the way that the people who wrote the character at the time were intending him to be portrayed.

In order to find the truth, it's imperative to be able to look at ourselves first, to question the assumptions we're making and step back from them. I don't give a damn what parties you've been to. That's got nothing to do with this. What's relevant is what the evidence from the previous nine Kirk episodes written to this point reveals about how the character was intended to be portrayed by the people making the television show in 1966. Any other consideration is extraneous, a source of bias that can distort your perception of the data.

 

[Pauln6]

It's clear to anybody who has ever been to a party like that! I just feel sorry for you if haven't! It's true that character consistency can be a problem in episodic TV. But real people are not consistent either and a moment of weakness while under the influence at a Christmas party could be described as out of character for a real person so I don't think it would be right to say it represents a lack of character consistency from a writing perspective.

So we have an image of Kirk that's mythologized and somewhat caricatured, and if we impose those modern assumptions on an episode like "Dagger of the Mind," we're not understanding the way that the people who wrote the character at the time were intending him to be portrayed.

In order to find the truth, it's imperative to be able to look at ourselves first, to question the assumptions we're making and step back from them. I don't give a damn what parties you've been to. That's got nothing to do with this. What's relevant is what the evidence from the previous nine Kirk episodes written to this point reveals about how the character was intended to be portrayed by the people making the television show in 1966. Any other consideration is extraneous, a source of bias that can distort your perception of the data.

Lol. They were some good parties, man. I was pretty sober but after I left, a couple of girls were seen making out outside the toilets and some of the managers got a dressing down for throwing cream cakes at some really expensive artwork! The firm got a large clean-up bill too. I'm glad I went home early! The point was simply that there could easily be some awkward exchanges on the transporter pad on Monday morning after that fiasco.

I do agree with what you say about Kirk being 'mythologized and somewhat caricatured' over time and it is quite sad that by STVI, the mythology became canonised as an in-joke, and then retconned and immortalised as a defining character trait in NuTrek. I got the jokes and laughed like the next guy (as I did in NuTrek) but the caricatured nature of STVI did take some of the shine off the overall movie for me. Many others feel it is among the finest Trek has to offer.

On the other hand the viewers' perceptions and opinions are inevitably going to be 'a source of bias that can distort [their] perception of the data'. Some writers may leave certain things ambiguous to encourage the viewers to fill in their own blanks so that they enjoy their own version of the story. Sometimes an urge to fill in the blanks officially should be resisted and can upset some people who believe their imaginary version was superior (the SW prequels being a classic example).

In fact those same viewers of the sixties shows coming to write, direct, and produce the movies years later brought their own (mis)conceptions about the characters and turned them into express reality.

I share your admiration of early TOS Kirk as a character. He was very sophisticated for a sixties hero and by no means cocky, arrogant, or lascivious. Still - if Helen Noel was tipsy and offering it on a plate - it must have been challenging for the writers to resist - he wasn't a nun...

Oh wait, didn't he like nuns?

And in terms of relationships, I suppose that we also have to deduct the second 5-year mission from the 12-year timeline so the characters would only have 7 years to establish their relationships by TWoK. Given Demora's age, wouldn't she need to be born during the 18-month refit period?

 

[Jose Tyler]

Christopher -

You are exactly right in saying that Kirk having some sort of dalliance with a subordinate would be uncharacteristic of how Kirk was written in the first 9 episodes. However, uncharacteristic does not mean impossible. Do we know what really happened? No. Do we know that both parties were being totally honest when they said they only danced and talked about the stars? No, we do not that either. All we can take from the scene in the transporter room is that the sexual and interpersonal tension between the two could almost be cut with a knife. Plus, the scene plays much better if something may have happened, characteristic or not. Like Kirk’s pause as he gets on the pad, then returns to talk to Spock. This is same Kirk that was split in two, assaulted his yeoman, then returned to the bridge pretty much like it was a usual day at the office. But here he almost squirms with discomfort. Heck, even Spock seems to be aware that there was scuttlebutt aboard the ship. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying when people and sex are involved, there are always possibilities. Plus, do these look like totally innocent, unaware faces?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Since a key plot point rest on things being different than what actually happenee, I'd say Noel and Kirk were being honest about what happened or didn't happen.

Treatment room]

KIRK: I have no desire to damage my brain. Can this be handled with reasonable safety? Yes or no?
NOEL: Yes.
KIRK: And will you be able to determine if that beam is harming me in the slightest?
NOEL: Yes, Captain. I know my profession. (Kirk sits in treatment chair) Ready?
KIRK: Mm-hmm.
NOEL: We'll try minimum intensity, a second or two. (light turns)
KIRK: Anytime you're ready, Doctor, just for a second or two.
NOEL: We already tried it for that long, Captain.
KIRK: Nothing happened.
NOEL: Something happened. Your face went completely blank.
KIRK: Try a harmless suggestion.
NOEL: (light turns) You're hungry.
KIRK: You know, when we finally get through this I'd like to locate and raid a kitchen somewhere.
NOEL: I put that suggestion in your mind, Captain. I said simply that you were hungry.
KIRK: Remarkably effective for a device that Doctor Adams was going to abandon.
NOEL: I think we should try this again.
KIRK: Yes. Pick something unusual, an unusual suggestion, something we can both be sure of.
NOEL: (light turns) At the Christmas party, we met, we danced, you talked about the stars. I suggest now that it happened in a different way. You swept me off my feet and carried me to your cabin.

[Kirk's quarters]

KIRK: Merry Christmas.
NOEL: Captain, if your crew saw you carry me here.
KIRK: My crew is sworn to secrecy.
NOEL: But my reputation. I mean, just having met like this. Of course, it would be different if you cared for me.
KIRK: You want me to manufacture a lie, wrap it up as a Christmas present for you?
NOEL: No, I prefer honesty. (they kiss)