11th Doctor Casting announcment tommorow

[davejames]

I loved that Sarah-Jane called him out on it at the end of Journey's End, as well. She's used to the 4th Doctor's almost need for solitude. And that's something I wish they would try again: a Doctor who doesn't want a companion. Sarah-Jane was the only companion the 4th Doctor offered a trip to after he regenerated (save, I guess, him making a point with Harry Sullivan). Leela forces her way in, Romana is forced on him, and Adric was a stowaway. I like that. I think it shows storytelling variety, beyond the "Magic Carpet Ride" Doctor's 9 & 10 were always on about...

Well I think that was just part of RTD's plan to emphasize the magic and wonder of the Doctor Who universe a little more than before, and give it a little bit of a Spielbergian touch. A lot of times in the classic series it seems like everyones just takes all the time travel and alien worlds for granted: "Ho hum, it's another alien world. Can we go now?" lol

I can definitely understand RTD wanting to avoid that at the start. But I agree it's probably time now for a change in the dynamic. I'd love to see Smith's Doctor having to cope with an alien stowaway who just refuses to leave.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Does anyone thing that ten was being prophetic when he said that he was going to die by tripping over a stone?

Imagine: He trips over a stone and regenerates, then says "CALLED IT!"

 

[Australis]

http://www.wetrustinmoffat.com/

What they said. I was going to post something similar.

 

[Stevil2001]

Yeah it would be nice for the TARDIS to malfunction again so the Doctor couldn't take his companion home, I've definitely had enough of the 'I want to travel with you forever' nonsense.

But if the companion is supposed to be an audience-identification figure, how can the audience be asked to identify with a character who thinks traveling through time and space is boring? The worst part of the Doctor/Peri dynamic is that Peri plainly does not want to be there.

 

[The]

I loved that Sarah-Jane called him out on it at the end of Journey's End, as well. She's used to the 4th Doctor's almost need for solitude. And that's something I wish they would try again: a Doctor who doesn't want a companion. Sarah-Jane was the only companion the 4th Doctor offered a trip to after he regenerated (save, I guess, him making a point with Harry Sullivan). Leela forces her way in, Romana is forced on him, and Adric was a stowaway. I like that. I think it shows storytelling variety, beyond the "Magic Carpet Ride" Doctor's 9 & 10 were always on about...

Well I think that was just part of RTD's plan to emphasize the magic and wonder of the Doctor Who universe a little more than before, and give it a little bit of a Spielbergian touch. A lot of times in the classic series it seems like everyones just takes all the time travel and alien worlds for granted: "Ho hum, it's another alien world. Can we go now?" lol

I can definitely understand RTD wanting to avoid that at the start. But I agree it's probably time now for a change in the dynamic. I'd love to see Smith's Doctor having to cope with an alien stowaway who just refuses to leave.

Absolutely, without a doubt. I get RTD wanted to infuse the enthusiasm at the grandeur of exploring the universe, just as I agree that back in the old "stiff upper lip" days no real care was given to nurturing such a carefree attitude. But, as you say, enough is enough. Much like "how wonderful" The Doctor is, we get it already. Time for a new message, and new dynamic. Otherwise, it's going to become quickly repetitive.

And yes, I too would like a companion with more motives than hating their home life/mother/boyfriend. Very limiting if that's all the human race can produce in this century for a Doctor's companion...

 

[The]

But if the companion is supposed to be an audience-identification figure, how can the audience be asked to identify with a character who thinks traveling through time and space is boring?

I am once again confronted with this personally elusive and baffling concept. It's the same one I've heard all my life with comic book sidekicks and the like. What show am I watching? Rose Tyler? Martha Jones? Donna Noble? Or, Doctor Who? Because from the time I could read, I never, ever, ever "identified" with Robin, the Boy Wonder. I identified/wanted to be/read the comic for Batman. Same thing with Doctor Who. The companion is a non-character for me. I could care less what or who the companion is all about. The show is Doctor Who, and I identify, want to be, watch the show for The Doctor.

I'm not saying you are wrong. But, at the same time, I think the whole "audience-identifying" character thing is in large parts a left-over myth from mid-to-late 20th century child marketing. Doctor Who is entertainment. And if I'm so limited as to only being able to "identify" with another sad, lumpy human like myself (even one as hot as Billie Piper) then I'm obviously watching the wrong kind of show.

The worst part of the Doctor/Peri dynamic is that Peri plainly does not want to be there.

Disagree. The worst part of the Doctor/Peri dynamic were the scripts. Peri was happy and well to be there and traveling until The Doctor changed into a multicolored maniac...

 

[Samurai8472]

I loved that Sarah-Jane called him out on it at the end of Journey's End, as well. She's used to the 4th Doctor's almost need for solitude. And that's something I wish they would try again: a Doctor who doesn't want a companion. Sarah-Jane was the only companion the 4th Doctor offered a trip to after he regenerated (save, I guess, him making a point with Harry Sullivan). Leela forces her way in, Romana is forced on him, and Adric was a stowaway. I like that. I think it shows storytelling variety, beyond the "Magic Carpet Ride" Doctor's 9 & 10 were always on about...

Well I think that was just part of RTD's plan to emphasize the magic and wonder of the Doctor Who universe a little more than before, and give it a little bit of a Spielbergian touch. A lot of times in the classic series it seems like everyones just takes all the time travel and alien worlds for granted: "Ho hum, it's another alien world. Can we go now?" lol

I can definitely understand RTD wanting to avoid that at the start. But I agree it's probably time now for a change in the dynamic. I'd love to see Smith's Doctor having to cope with an alien stowaway who just refuses to leave.

Absolutely, without a doubt. I get RTD wanted to infuse the enthusiasm at the grandeur of exploring the universe, just as I agree that back in the old "stiff upper lip" days no real care was given to nurturing such a carefree attitude. But, as you say, enough is enough. Much like "how wonderful" The Doctor is, we get it already. Time for a new message, and new dynamic. Otherwise, it's going to become quickly repetitive.

And yes, I too would like a companion with more motives than hating their home life/mother/boyfriend. Very limiting if that's all the human race can produce in this century for a Doctor's companion...

but I LOVE those huge grandiose scenes with the doctor and companion just staring at a sunset on another planet with HUGE rock formations and creatures.

Or new new new new new new new new york hospital and flying cars

 

[wamdue]

Yeah it would be nice for the TARDIS to malfunction again so the Doctor couldn't take his companion home, I've definitely had enough of the 'I want to travel with you forever' nonsense.

But if the companion is supposed to be an audience-identification figure

I really hate that theory, RTDs has fleshed out the character of the Doctor very well, I dont think viewers (other than new ones) need an identification figure, TBH I wasn't identifying with Donna, in S4. When the auidence knows more than the companion the companion become useless (that is a problem for recurring aliens like the Daleks or even the Ood) the audience does not need a companion or worse to tell us how to react to what happens, we can do that ourselves.

Of course this is easy talk for 10, since we have spent that long with him, its very possible that will not apply when we get the 11th, and a little audience hand holding might be needed.

& Donnas time with the Doctor was something good to watch, but I would hardly say I was experiencing the episodes with her eyes, like I might have done Rose.

which makes another good point, um hello Russell as hard as try I will never be Billie Piper, can you really expect me to easily identify with a new female companion, when ive known the Doctor for longer.

 

[Sci]

But if the companion is supposed to be an audience-identification figure, how can the audience be asked to identify with a character who thinks traveling through time and space is boring?

I am once again confronted with this personally elusive and baffling concept. It's the same one I've heard all my life with comic book sidekicks and the like. What show am I watching? Rose Tyler? Martha Jones? Donna Noble? Or, Doctor Who? Because from the time I could read, I never, ever, ever "identified" with Robin, the Boy Wonder. I identified/wanted to be/read the comic for Batman. Same thing with Doctor Who. The companion is a non-character for me. I could care less what or who the companion is all about. The show is Doctor Who, and I identify, want to be, watch the show for The Doctor.

I'm not saying you are wrong. But, at the same time, I think the whole "audience-identifying" character thing is in large parts a left-over myth from mid-to-late 20th century child marketing. Doctor Who is entertainment. And if I'm so limited as to only being able to "identify" with another sad, lumpy human like myself (even one as hot as Billie Piper) then I'm obviously watching the wrong kind of show.

I, on the other hand, always identified with Rose. Something about the idea of a poor person with no real future suddenly being swept away on interstellar, time traveling adventures always resonated with me. Same with Donna.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rose was 18. She was supposed to be living with her parents, and you get a decent wage from your average department store... Donna had a decent job but why did she live at home? Unless she lost her house/flat in preparation for the marriage?

Poor? What an odd thing to say?

How did Jackie earn money?

 

[Brendan Moody]

It's not exactly surprising that some science fiction fans on the Internet don't have trouble identifying with the Doctor. But realistically, the mass audience the new series is aimed at isn't going to adopt an alien perspective with that ease. Just about every production team has understood that the companion is an identification figure for at least part of the audience.

Plus, like Steve says, the model for a companion who doesn't much want to be there is Peri in season 22. Brr. Doctor Who is a show about the wonders of traveling in time and space: having a lead who isn't enthusiastic about that is like hiring a tour guide who thinks your museum sucks.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I don't think the audience is really supposed to identify with the Companion. What does it mean, really? I think the Companion is there to ground things in reality and to provide us with a recognizable emotional frame of reference.

 

[Stevil2001]

I don't think the audience is really supposed to identify with the Companion. What does it mean, really?

It means this:

I think the Companion is there to ground things in reality and to provide us with a recognizable emotional frame of reference.

 

[davejames]

having a lead who isn't enthusiastic about that is like hiring a tour guide who thinks your museum sucks.

Lol

 

[Sci]

Rose was 18. She was supposed to be living with her parents, and you get a decent wage from your average department store...

I think if you pay attention to what we see of Rose's and Jackie's life in "Rose," you might see that the intent was to imply -- without saying it outright -- that Rose and Jackie are barely making it.

Rose is working in a shop, and, by all accounts, it's not the best of jobs. Jackie, you might notice, never leaves the house. She immediately starts talking about various ways to win "compensation for genuine shock and trauma," and immediately harps on Rose to get a job even as she does nothing around the apartment. Neither Jackie nor Rose seem to have a car -- when Rose wants to drive somewhere, she has to get Mickey to drive her. Later that night, Jackie goes out shopping -- even though they've just lost income. Rose describes having quit school when she was younger to run away and live with a guy who later dumped her. And where does Mickey work? In a car repair shop.

The intent seems clear to me: Jackie and Rose live at the bottom of the economic ladder. Rose was the sole breadwinner of the home, and Jackie was basically being a parasite, spending their money on things they really couldn't afford.

Donna had a decent job but why did she live at home? Unless she lost her house/flat in preparation for the marriage?

Donna didn't have a decent job until she went to work for HC Clemmons, and then she lost that job after "The Runaway Bride." Subsequent episodes established that her parents seem to have had a decent-paying job since they had a good house and were able to continue to support Donna well into her 30s and her grandfather, but episodes such as "The Sontaran Stratagem," "Partners in Crime," and "Turn Left" made it clear that throughout her life, she'd never been able to hold down a job for long -- hence her being, in essence, a career temp whose life was going nowhere until she met the Doctor.

 

[Jim Steele]

you get a decent wage from your average department store

Bollocks. She'd be lucky if she was getting £6 an hour.

 

[Guy Gardener]

6 pounds an hour for a child who lives at home doesn't have a car and doesn't drink? UNless she's supporting Jaqui she should be fine... Wait, Jacki said that she was 20 quid better off a week because of Harriet Jones. that sounds like a benefit or a subsidy.

I'm obviously living on the other end of the spectrum than you two, and consider a lot less to be enough to live on, but if you can put food on the table, pay the power and not get kicked of what seemed to be a council flat, it's not exactly the worst life in the world.

Poor to me is sleeping in a doorway owing your pimp money, or living under the burden of some other incredible debt, or dubious obligation.

They were doing about as well as most of the people living that area of london, which is hardly the third world.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

^Well living in a council automatically means low income, because council housing is for low income families.

 

[Jim Steele]

6 pounds an hour for a child who lives at home doesn't have a car and doesn't drink? UNless she's supporting Jaqui she should be fine... Wait, Jacki said that she was 20 quid better off a week because of Harriet Jones. that sounds like a benefit or a subsidy.

She's clearly the only breadwinner in the house. I'm not saying they'll be destitute, but "poor" wouldn't be an exaggeration.

I'm obviously living on the other end of the spectrum than you two,

What makes you say that? I know £6 an hour is a shit wage.

and consider a lot less to be enough to live on, but if you can put food on the table, pay the power and not get kicked of what seemed to be a council flat, it's not exactly the worst life in the world.

Not by a long stretch. But as far as the UK is concerned, as close to the bottom of the ladder as you can get before you're facing homelessness. Sci isn't being unreasonable when he describes them as being at the bottom of the economic ladder.

It's pretty obvious that they're supposed to be potless, always worrying about the next bill and almost completely without prospects. But it's a TV show, so it's presented in a much fluffier manner.

Poor to me is sleeping in a doorway owing your pimp money, or living under the burden of some other incredible debt, or dubious obligation.

They were doing about as well as most of the people living that area of london, which is hardly the third world.

It's supposed to be one of the poorer areas of Whoniverse London. Ever been to the real London? Beyond Piccadilly Circus, Chiswick and Canary Wharf, there are a lot of people crammed into tower blocks with nowhere to go. In the real world, people like Jackie and Rose are, frankly, fucked.

 

[davejames]

Maybe "poor" is or isn't the right way to describe those two, but I do think the fact they both felt their lives were dull and lacking in adventure is something many people COULD identify with.

They were just a couple of average, everyday people who got to go on a fantastic adventure with a mysterious time traveller. Who wouldn't be incredibly tempted at such an offer?