Man, this is why I love Whovians. Look at us, discussing the possible continuity issues of a non existent storyline we just made up.
11th Doctor Casting announcment tommorow
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that Van Statann not knowing about the Daleks, is getting to be a bit of a continuity nightmare all by itself.
No one owns the Internet, but a figurehead can be put in place to attract the conspiracy nuts if theirs enough mind control tech floating around that anyone can be given any inplausable personality necessary to keep societies wheels greased.
You know what I bothered me about what Russel said in the big tell about Smith? When he was talking about McGhan, and he used the phrase "For just one night only" about four times, and I'm wondering if no has mentioned that McGhan has been on the job for the last ten years? Is it possible he doesn't know about audio, or does he just think it doesn't count?
You know what I bothered me about what Russel said in the big tell about Smith? When he was talking about McGhan, and he used the phrase "For just one night only" about four times, and I'm wondering if no has mentioned that McGhan has been on the job for the last ten years? Is it possible he doesn't know about audio, or does he just think it doesn't count?
It doesn't count. General Motors doesn't care about Hot Wheels.
Oh, look at the show's history as simply following the Doctor's own personal timeline, and then everything becomes peachy keen.
I hate to resort to a cliche, but when the Doctor referred to time as a big ball of string, then maybe the show is just about the Doctor hopping from one point of yarn to another where they intersect, rather than just following the line all the way down.
Lol, I don't normally do this kind of thing, but I do find it funny that someone putting up such a passionate defense of McGann... can't even spell his name right.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Won't do it again.
I was wondering who he was Guy Gardener was talking about.
Lol, I don't normally do this kind of thing, but I do find it funny that someone putting up such a passionate defense of McGann... can't even spell his name right.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Won't do it again.
yes I think that Dalek one will be brushed under the carpet saying WWTW, and hoping no one will notice or ask anymore questions.
Russell is very much aware of the audios (describes "Spare Parts" as "some of the finest drama ever written for any genre, in any medium, anywhere"). I also wonder why confidential etc never acknowledges the audio but I'm hardly going to get my knickers in a twist about it.
And the audios do count. Or not. The production team deliberately refuse to define a 'canon' a la' star trek to let people decide for themselves what counts. And frankly, the audios are just as good as the TV series, classic and new.
I think the problem with counting audios is the limited audience, im guessing none of them have been heard by 10 million people, also there is so much of it, and if you count one, you end up having to count alot more.
The new series cant even keep canon with the new series adventures books (for example in The Story of Martha, the Doctor takes a trip in a balloon, but in The Next Doctor, he says he has never flown one before) yet alone the thousands of audio stories written in a time when it was assumed Doctor Who would never again appear on TV.
Also if you start counting books & audios, you then end up with the idea that the Doctor used the chameleon arc twice, once as the 7th Doctor & once as the 10th.
nope its totally crazy, to avoid my getting a headache when thinking about this, only TV counts, and then only TV made by the BBC.
The production team may refuse to define "canon" but by making "Family of Blood / Human Nature" they basically said that they dont count.
Of course this is just my opinon, and im sure someone will tell me im wrong.
Also im pretty sure the production team have to count the whole of the new series, thus defining canon (in a small way), because if they dont its going to get crazy.
The new series cant even keep canon with the new series adventures books (for example in The Story of Martha, the Doctor takes a trip in a balloon, but in The Next Doctor, he says he has never flown one before) yet alone the thousands of audio stories written in a time when it was assumed Doctor Who would never again appear on TV.
Also if you start counting books & audios, you then end up with the idea that the Doctor used the chameleon arc twice, once as the 7th Doctor & once as the 10th.
nope its totally crazy, to avoid my getting a headache when thinking about this, only TV counts, and then only TV made by the BBC.
The production team may refuse to define "canon" but by making "Family of Blood / Human Nature" they basically said that they dont count.
Of course this is just my opinon, and im sure someone will tell me im wrong.
Also im pretty sure the production team have to count the whole of the new series, thus defining canon (in a small way), because if they dont its going to get crazy.
No, they simply remade the story for a different format. Given the nature of Doctor Who and the continuity nightmare that surrounds it, if you really need to reconcile it, it's perfectly possible for the same events to have occurred with the Seventh Doctor in an alternate, now defunct timeline.
I don't see why any of that is a problem. I'm guessing that the majority of the new series audience haven't seen much Classic Who, does that mean it too "doesn't count"? And so what if there's a lot of it? The Doctor is a time traveller, and one who has lived a very long time.
Wikipedia, funnily enough, would seem to put it best:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoniverse#Inclusion_and_canonicity
My personal take is that the TV series is authoritative, the audio adventures are part of the same (mostly) consistent universe and the novels are fiction-within-fiction, so to speak. But that's just me, everyone else will have their own interpretation. Nobody's wrong, nobody's right, and that's the beauty of the Whoniverse.
im not sure you should be able to count everything just be simply declaring anything that does not fit, as an alt timeline, different fans will count different audios/books as being in an alt timeline, making it even more confusing.
That said when I read the NSA and they refrences to both events in past books & the TV series, I want them to be part of the New Series timeline, but in some cases you just can not do that.
Prisoner of the Daleks is going to prove interesting, as to how NSA fit with the TV series.
The Story of Martha is one that should count, since it starts where one episode ends, and another one begins, but its also the book that conflicts with "ive never flown a balloon" quote, and I was not overly thrilled at the inclusion of another set of aliens in this book. For a book that I thought would be a continuity dream, has turned into a bit of a nightmare.
That said when I read the NSA and they refrences to both events in past books & the TV series, I want them to be part of the New Series timeline, but in some cases you just can not do that.
Prisoner of the Daleks is going to prove interesting, as to how NSA fit with the TV series.
The Story of Martha is one that should count, since it starts where one episode ends, and another one begins, but its also the book that conflicts with "ive never flown a balloon" quote, and I was not overly thrilled at the inclusion of another set of aliens in this book. For a book that I thought would be a continuity dream, has turned into a bit of a nightmare.
I'm a bit baffled that Who fans pay as much attention to continuity as they DO. Yeah a few storylines and aliens get followed up on now and then, but unlike Trek this never struck me as a show that relied all that heavily on continuity to begin with. Especially with all the jumping around in time and the "adventure of the week" format.
I've just never been under the impression that we were supposed to be taking it all so seriously.
But oh well, I guess fans will be fans. lol
I've just never been under the impression that we were supposed to be taking it all so seriously.
But oh well, I guess fans will be fans. lol
I agree, but it's fun to discuss these things imho. I couldn't really care less about The Morbius Doctors, for example, but by god I'll argue the toss on the subject until doomsday!
well whilst the timeline of earth and the universe is awlays going to be a bit all over the place, the Doctor should be able to look back at this life, in more or less straight line (expect for things like Blink) not one day remeber being human as the 7th Doctor, but a month later, that not happening, and him remembering being human as the 10th Doctor.
books & audios, TBH im surprised people count such things as anything more than wishful thinking.
books & audios, TBH im surprised people count such things as anything more than wishful thinking.
it is probaly a good idea I dont know who he is (unless he is that future evil 13th Doctor ive heard about)I agree, but it's fun to discuss these things imho. I couldn't really care less about The Morbius Doctors, for example, but by god I'll argue the toss on the subject until doomsday!
The Doctor himself always says "time is in flux". Linear causality, even in one's own timestream, does not always apply. That's why he battles to save the earth from Carrionites in Shakespeare's time instead of sitting on his arse and assuming it'll be alright because he remembers 2008 being fine and dandy.
Well first and formost, a good story is a good story regardless of any arbitrary "continuity issues" (of which there are very few btw). Big Finish has provided ten years worth of good stories, that's why people enjoy them. And there's absolutely nothing to suggest that these stories "don't count" in the grander pantheon of the Whoniverse, so why shouldn't people enjoy them and accept them as part of it if they wish?
it is probaly a good idea I dont know who he is (unless he is that future evil 13th Doctor ive heard about)I agree, but it's fun to discuss these things imho. I couldn't really care less about The Morbius Doctors, for example, but by god I'll argue the toss on the subject until doomsday!
I find your lack of classic-who knowledge disturbing... /Vader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_of_Morbius
that is what happens when you grow up in a household where your parents don't have PayTV, and you yourself don't like spending money on over priced BBC Doctor Who DVDs, never mind the fact you only really became a fan when the new series started.I find your lack of classic-who knowledge disturbing... /Vader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_of_Morbiuswamdue said:it is probaly a good idea I dont know who he is (unless he is that future evil 13th Doctor ive heard about)I agree, but it's fun to discuss these things imho. I couldn't really care less about The Morbius Doctors, for example, but by god I'll argue the toss on the subject until doomsday!
*reads the link*
oh yes the theory that the 1st Doctor is not the 1st Doctor, ive seen arguments about this one on OG, it does seem like the BBC has written over this one.
I dont care how much someone says that the Doctors history changes, there is no way I am going to believe that his regenerations change as part of that history.
Arguing for these doctors would be like arguing Dimensions in Time counts, and everything done since to change that fact was crazy talk.
Maybe I am too used to my canon generally only coming from the TV show, because if im honest the idea that things like BF not made by the BBC count seems odd to me. Of course that opinon might change had I been the age I am now when the Classic Series was on.
well that is earths time line now the Doctor, had the Doctor failed to stop the Carrionite, he would simply be remembering an earth alt time line.
How does that disprove his own timeline is in flux? Surely it supports the idea. It's all related and it's all relative.
But just because Time Lords are sensitive to changes in the timeline doesn't mean such a huge change won't affect the events of his time stream.
Anyway, the multi-doctor stories (including and especially Time Crash) would appear to suggest that the Doctor's timeline isn't as locked in stone as you seem to think it is.
We've seen evidence to suggest that both scenarios (ie The Doctor remembering alternate timelines and that his own memories can be changed), and given the "wibbly wobbly" nature of the show and its attitude to consistency it would seem a little silly to have such a black and white stance on the issue.
Anyway, the multi-doctor stories (including and especially Time Crash) would appear to suggest that the Doctor's timeline isn't as locked in stone as you seem to think it is.
We've seen evidence to suggest that both scenarios (ie The Doctor remembering alternate timelines and that his own memories can be changed), and given the "wibbly wobbly" nature of the show and its attitude to consistency it would seem a little silly to have such a black and white stance on the issue.
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