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11.59

what do you think of the episode11.59.

  • love it

    Votes: 7 26.9%
  • hate it

    Votes: 7 26.9%
  • Meh

    Votes: 12 46.2%

  • Total voters
    26
Didn't care for '11:59' at all, and anyone arguin' the idea that it's VOY's version of 'The Inner Light' and/or 'Far Beyond the Stars'...well, that just goes to show how poor an imitation VOY could be, doesn't it?

I'm being misquoted here. The comment was made that "11:59" was not true "Trek" (which I took to mean all about shoot 'em up space travel). I simply said that other Trek series also had an episode or two that weren't true "Trek" and used those two episodes as examples--because they ARE considered to be good. I never said that "11:59" was of the same quality, although I don't think it is all that bad, either. Please make sure you know what you're saying before you start criticizin' . . . thanks. ;)
 
^

'The Inner Light' was true Trek, since it was all about a new civilization and Picard makin' contact with an extinct culture through a truly unique, first hand experience.

'Far Beyond the Stars' was true Trek, since it was all about Sisko gettin' a vision from the Prophets, tyin' it in with the series premiere, Sisko's role as the Emissary and with the two part premiere of the show's final season.

'11:59' was just an excuse for Kate Mulgrew not to play Janeway & still get a Paramount paycheck. And, as I said, it completely ignored continuity from previous episodes..that's right up there whether or not Voyager was Janeway's first command!
 
You could say that "Inner Light" was all about lettin' Picard play some old guy on a dusty planet, or that "Beyond the Stars" was lettin' Brooks play some old journalist, too. Neither one has any kind of space battle shoot 'em ups. Sorry. ;)
 
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^^^^

I think they may have thought differently if Kate's performance had been above and beyond in 11:59 like Brook's was in FBtS and Stewart's was in IL
 
^ That's true. In fact Brooks not only starred in Far Beyond the Stars, he directed it - which is the only time in the history of Star Trek that the main character of an episode has also directed it.

The difference is - and I don't want you to think I'm Voyager bashing, I'd do this for any series - there's no point in this episode, it has no effect on future episodes and the chacters don't get to do anything. In Far Beyond the Stars and the Inner Light, Picard and Sisko are both dealing with the situation and Brooks and Stewart are able to take on a different role.

In 11:59, we spend a good 2/3s of the episode watching something that none of the characters ever have any interaction with, while the part is still played by Mulgrew, this doesn't matter because it isn't Mulgrew as Janeway being placed into a different situation, it's just Mulgrew.

If it was a case of aliens who zapped Janeway's brain and made her think she was Shannon O'Donnell I'd be a lot more favourable of this episode - unlike Far Beyond the Stars she doesn't have previous for this - but I'd let it go.

But that doesn't happen. There's nothing Trek about it, and while in The Inner Light, Picard - The Starfleet Captain, Career Oriented - gets to see what it would be like to have a family, which probably goes some way to explaining why his nexus vision is this.

Sisko, who is faltering after the dominion war is taking a turn for the worst, is dropped into the civil rights era, and is shown to see that it is worth fighting the good fight.

There is one thing I can say about all 3, Mulgrew, Brooks and Stewart all give fantastic performances in their episodes. While 11:59 doesn't make sense as a Trek Episode, as a piece of drama, the Shannon O'Donnell plotline is remarkable well done and I did find myself drawn into it.

It's just bad because unlike The Inner Light and Far Beyond the Stars, it doesn't mean anything.

Lets go through the episode:

We start with Neelix asking Janeway about the Great Wall of China and other such early examples of objects that can be seen from space (unlike the Great Wall which can be seen from LEO if you happen to get it on a clear day, but lets ignore that because I didn't know this until researching this).

We then get the set up - Neelix asks Janeway to tell him about the Millenium Gate, and we then see Shannon O'Donnell driving into town (making a Captain's Log, to remind us that this is Star Trek) and meeting the crusty but loveable Henry Janeway and the entirety of Act 1 is taken up by them meeting and falling in love, culminating in a meal by a romantic book. (Which is down right ridiculous, and if you know anything about me, you'd know I like that sort of thing in these cases :))

So then we come to Act 2 and Janeway is using the advanced Stellar Cartography lab...to look at a 3d model of the Millenium Gate, we then get some talk between Janeway and Seven, then we go to the Mess Hall where we get some talk about Seven's Ancestors and such and then we see a holographic picture of Janeway's family that a Ferengi put in a historical database...that Voyager happens to have a copy of...

We then go into Act 3, and there's no set up this time, just back on Earth for the entire act, which culminates in Shannon O'Donnell storming out. In the requisite lover's quarrel.

We then go back to Voyager for more filler, first where we learn about Harry's Uncle Jack and Doc's Uncle Gillette. Then we learn the bombshell - Janeway's ancestor wasn't a martian.

We then cut to the ready room for more filler, back and forth, how will history remember us etc.

Now we're back on Earth, again with no set up and it all turns out happily ever after and the crusty Henry Janeway is convinced to get on with his life and the future turns out the way it should, only this time Biff won't be an insufferable ass.

Then we round off the episode with "Ancestor's Eve" and the origin of the group photo.

The Voyager Crew are incidental in this episode. Most of the episode would still work with little to no changes if it took place on TNG or DS9. (For example the "His cousing was an electric shaver" joke would work equally well if applied to Data). The main story that we're meant to care about is regarding Shannon O'Donnell, but since we're only seeing what happened, and the end is already pre-determined, there's no real tension. No matter what might happen in the episode, since Janeway exists we know it's going to work out for O'Donnell and Janeway in the end.
 
You could say that "Inner Light" was all about lettin' Picard play some old guy on a dusty planet, or that "Beyond the Stars" was lettin' Brooks play some old journalist, too. Neither one has any kind of space battle shoot 'em ups. Sorry. ;)

I know ya know the franchise is more than just space battle shoot 'em ups. Even durin' the Dominion War episodes of DS9, they still had more human drama than space battles.
 
... In fact Brooks not only starred in Far Beyond the Stars, he directed it - which is the only time in the history of Star Trek that the main character of an episode has also directed it.

Ya don't think Leonard Nimoy directin' The Search for Spock (everything does revolve around the character of Spock) or William Shatner directin' The Final Frontier (Kirk was the most prominent of the characters in the movie) count?

It might be more accurate to say that it was the first time a Trek actor directin' an episode where he was also in every scene of the episode.

On TNG, whenever a cast member directed an episode, they only had one or two scenes. For example, Jonathan Frakes's only scene in 'The Offspring' (the first episode he directoed) was when Riker returned to the Enterprise-D midway through, and got kissed by Lal.

Same was true on DS9 & VOY, with the exception of 'Far Beyond the Stars'.
 
That's why I distinguished episode, because the FF remark is valid. And Search for Spock doesn't count anyway because it revolves around Spock, but we hardly see him!
 
^^ But Leonard Nimoy wasn't. And he is Spock.

Nimoy was seen for all of five minutes. Maybe.

So it's exactly the same as when Frakes and Stewart directed episodes of TNG
 
Because I mean Nimoy? Which should have been pretty obvious considering the comment was on directors...

:vulcan:

EDIT: I'm glad someone got it!
 
What is there not to get?

That's exactly what you said.

Wait, didn't Nimoy direct Voyage Home?



Oh yeah, FF doesn't count. It's not canon.
 
Yeah he did, but Kirk was always the "star" of the films, which is where I make the distinction.

And I like the description of FF as "it's certainly a science fiction film, but it'd probably make more sense if you just took the "Star Trek" title off it!
 
I love that description!

It's true though.

FF was, as teacake says, "camp, camp, camp"

And "What does God need with a starship?" :rofl:
 
And also a book called "I Am Spock"

And that was also his second or third line in ST:XI


He has a bit of a love/hate relationship with Spock.
 
According to Nimoy it wasn't that he had a love/hate relationship with the character, it was based on an experience he had:

He was in an airport and a mother steered her son over to him and said

"look who it is"

no response

"you watch him on tv every week"

no response

"it's your favourite character"

no response

"it's mr spock"

no response

And it made Nimoy think that even though he played the character, when that boy looked at him, he did not identify him as Spock, to him in order to be Spock he'd have to have the ears and the uniform.

So Nimoy titled his first Autobiography "I am not Spock" in relation to this experience...but it went down badly and named his second Autobiography "I am Spock" as a consolation. Then of course there was his famous feud with James Doohan which led to the third autobiography "I am also Scotty" and thankfully after that he stopped writing autobiographies!

And why did the Chicken cross the road, to get to the other side. Is actually a deep existential statement if you assume: the chicken is dead or dies whilst crossing. :p
 
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