Not to mention, 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was actually a fun episode. Flashback always gets skipped when I do a voyager re-watch.
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“Jean-Luc Picard is back”: will new Picard show eclipse Discovery?
- Thread starter Groppler Zorn
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Not to mention, 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was actually a fun episode. Flashback always gets skipped when I do a voyager re-watch.
Not to mention viruses that seem to teleport themselves when their host is about to die... How else would you explain that they would jump from Valtane to Tuvok in a heartbeat?
I think he was a ‘baddie’ in wrestling at the ugh it can be hard to tell...
1 "Nostalgic fun" or horrific fan service? I thought DSC was the only series to do that! And it's always awful,mbecause the fans deserve something new.
2. "Having too much fun" WAS beneath them. If things aren't serious, and it's not a "moral dilemma a minute" in the conference room, it's not real Star Trek.
You know this is television, right? Budget and timescales have a far larger influence on what can actually be shown on screen than, say, on movies, books or comicbooks.
Also, it was the Voyager writing room that came up with the idea to do flashback-episodes for the anniversary in the first place! They then told the DS9 writing room - and they went all in with the idea. On Voyager they weren't sure how nostalgic they can allow themselves to be - they also were only in their third season, and the episode eight before it was "Basics part 2", which most likely had ate a whole lot into their budget.
The DS9 writers had the luxury of being able to go even further on an idea others came up with. And put a lot of work in to outdo the others - and they did! Their episode was absolutely better! But it was also preceeded by "the assignement" and followed by "let he who is without sin..." (ugh). Basically, they decided to sacrifice a large part of their budget for the entire season on this one episode (and it showed on screen!). Wheras Voyager - because when they first had the idea it wasn't clear if it was going to happen at all - only had a "regular" episode budget at disposal. And it's frankly quite amazing how many Excelsiour sets, uniforms, vfx and actors they managed to prop up with that. That they had to fill the first half of the episode with single-actor scenes on standing sets to make up for the budget is a given.
And yes, "Tribble-ation" is - without a doubt - the better episode between the two. Even the writers of VOY admitted so much. But it was also one they had a lot of time to craft as one of their main "big event" episodes of the season, wheras VOY's "flashback" had to came up with the idea first, but also had to work on a regular episode budget. Without "Flashback", there wouldn't have been a "Tribble-ations".
The same way, the Voyager racing episode did the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM that's possible on a television budget to show us a space race! Hell, there might be more racing shots in this episode than Dominion war space battle shots on DS9.
Also, it was IMO a pretty good work to link the space race to a more personal character story. Otherwise that would have become really boring, really fast....
That was also WAY before Dwayne Johnson got into movies in the first place. At the time, he simply was a famous Wrestler having a cameo. In fact, it might be one of his first acting appereances overall. So it's not exactly "they wasted the Rock", it's "Look at what 'the Rock' did before he was famous!"
One year before The Mummy Returns?! That's WAY before he got into movies alright*.
* - Not really.
But yes, gratuitous cameo advertised ahead of time was gratuitous.
You think Let He Who is Without Sin... was a cheap episode? It wasn't a good one, but it's got extensive location shooting which is expensive. The Assignment was a good bottle show though.
No one's saying the problem with Flashback was that they didn't spend enough money. The special effects and the sets look great. The brand new Excelsior model is nice, though not quite as good as the original one. It was a lacklustre episode because of the script which didn't make good enough use of the Excelsior sets and George Takei.
I was hoping they'd do a new story, not tied to TUC. To keep this Voyager-esque, maybe Voyager runs into a problem and Tuvok has to remember how the Excelsior dealt with it when it faced a similar situation. You can even have the same technobabble to get Tuvok and Janeway there (this is VOY, we have to have the technobabble B-plot). Just take half the time to do it. Then maybe show off something that makes Sulu who he is, not Kirk-Lite.
I don't mind "Flashback". It was okay. But "Trials and Tribble-ations" it wasn't.
I don't mind "Flashback". It was okay. But "Trials and Tribble-ations" it wasn't.
One year before The Mummy Returns?! That's WAY before he got into movies alright*.
* - Not really.
But yes, gratuitous cameo advertised ahead of time was gratuitous.
Considering his role in "Mummy returns" was "cameo by a famus wrestler", and that the only time he actually himself acted on screen (and was not animated with a spider-body) was a voice-overed flash-back (so not even his own voice):
Yeah. Than "one year earlier" was absolutely BEFORE he really got into movies. You can call it his first time dipping his toes into this. And VOY was even before that. And even then, he was waaaaaay far away from the movie-stardom he enjoys now.
All it was a crossover event with WWE (or whatever it called itself at the time) that was also on UPN. So, agree on the Gratuitous cameo event being gratuitous.One year before The Mummy Returns?! That's WAY before he got into movies alright*.
* - Not really.
But yes, gratuitous cameo advertised ahead of time was gratuitous.
Considering they filmed it in the same Japanese garden of the Donald C. Tillman Water Reclamation Plant in the middle of LA (where they also filmed TNGs "Justice" and every apperance of Starfleet headquarters), sure, it's still a bit more expensive to shoot in outside light than on stage. But it's not exactly like they were location shooting in the desert or something.
I mean, it's not a cheap "bottle episode". But nobody would come out and praise TNG season 1's "Justice" as a hallmark of an expensive episode with location shooting. That's pretty managable if the episode otherwise doesn't have heavy vfx or make-up work. Which it didn't.It's just money spend differently. Which is good - adds variety.
(contrast that to season 1 of DIS, which took place entirely on their standing sets for the majority)
Thing is: Without the boring first 20 minutes "bottle-show"-part of the episode, the budget for the latter half simply wouldn't have been there. They managed to get the entire old Excelsiour bridge crew back. They can't just keep them for a whole lot of shooting days. That shit is expensive.
And the other solution - just show the Excelsiour sets with the familiar characters (Janeway, Tuvok) in them - they already did plenty of that as well. More of that would have been even more jarring.
They really managed to get the most out of every single penny spend on this episode. Just from a production standpoint, they did a freakin' amazing job. It's just that they didn't have that much pennies to spend - especially in contrast to DS9, which allocated a whole lot of their overall season budget to their one episode.
Which worked AMAZING! That "Tribble" episode still is a marvel, especially considering the Forest Gump-ing technology at the time. But VOY - by coming first up with this idea, and at a point when their season was already mostly planned out - simply didn't have the luxury of that much prep-time and resources. So yeah - "Tribble-ations" is a freakin' masterpiece. But "Flashback" is also really good, especially considering how much they managed to pull off in a "regular" episode (rather an "event" episode).
It's not a goalpost-shift if you keep using straw-man arguments to misrepresent the original statement.
"Dwayne Johnsons" FIRST APPEREANCE in a movie was "The mummy returns". And he really wasn't big in that. It was a famous-Wrestler-trying-to-break-into-acting cameo. And his cameo in VOY was even before that. That's WAY before the Rock became a famous actor no matter how you slice it.
And you keep to mangle, misrepresent and artificially misunderstand the original statements, just to be able to point out some "hypocrisy" you yourself created. Your essentially arguing against yourself at this point - your argument versus your strawman argument you try to assign to me. Stop doing that.
Of course not. It's almost the 25th Century. It's not like Picard's some primitive, backwards savage.
Of course not. It's almost the 25th Century. It's not like Picard's some primitive, backwards savage.
Did you crop out the dune buggy?
Nah. I was looking for whatever pictures I could find online. I wanted to find it.
Strange fellow. Unless I have to, I try not to think about the dune buggy at all. Good luck. XD
It's actually all about how Picard brought back street racing to the Federation.
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