TWOK:DE

My DVD of TWOK is labelled “The Director’s Edition.”

I recall that certain changes to the ending, such as Kirk’s voiceover about “the friend I leave behind” and the shot of Spock’s coffin on the surface of Genesis, were made over Meyer’s objections. Yet those elements are still present in this Director’s Edition.

So is this really a Director’s Edition or not? Did Meyers change his opinion on those matters?

I never really understood why Nick Meyer's Director's Cut of TWOK (or TUC, for that matter, as well) didn't make it to BD. Neither DE's were structurally or SFX-wise enhanced and/or changed, they just added a moment or two here and there. I was really dissapointed that his entries didn't get the BD treatment, when they were so eligible to.

I would think that Meyer changed his initial dislike of these elements after they were well recieved by the various critics, test audiences and indeed the moviegoers, taking them out of the Directors Cut would have been silly and would likely have illicitated some negative responses from critics, therefore Meyer left them in and instead of taking stuff out he simply restored footage and remastered the quality slightly

I think all of the restored scenes (minus the ladder scene where Kirk tells Spock "That young man is my son" to which Spock replies "Fascinating") should have been left in the theatrical cut, they all add a great deal to the film

Meyer has said that that the film is no longer the directors once it's out there, expressing this dislike of "revision" in the name of director vision, if I remember correctly.

I don't get it... So he dislikes the elements he inserted back in? Is that it?

I thought he was consulted by ABC on lengthening TWOK with additional footage, and that version was pretty much the one that appeared on the DE. In addition to adding a little here or there, iirc, he also changed the takes used in the turbolift scene with Kirk and Saavik.

Pity that I don't notice any similar changes in TSfS, TVH or even TFF where additional footage would've been deeply appreciated. And in TSfS, they left the error where a Klingon in a tree is stuck in the middle of Saavik and Spock's scene together during the storm.

Emperor-Tiberius said:

I never really understood why Nick Meyer's Director's Cut of TWOK (or TUC, for that matter, as well) didn't make it to BD. [...] I was really dissapointed that his entries didn't get the BD treatment, when they were so eligible to.

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Give it time, they'll get to it!

ClayinCA said:

Emperor-Tiberius said:

I never really understood why Nick Meyer's Director's Cut of TWOK (or TUC, for that matter, as well) didn't make it to BD. [...] I was really dissapointed that his entries didn't get the BD treatment, when they were so eligible to.

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Give it time, they'll get to it!

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Thats my point. They should've done so in the first place, especially when Meyer's revisions for TWOK were minor, at best.

Wait for what, the DIrector's Cut Blu-Ray set? Unless that guarantees a Director's Cut for Shatner's TFF, no thanks.

In years past, when movies would be released on home video with extended scenes, or more often broadcast on television in sometimes greatly lengthened versions (makes room for more commercials), the added material was only mastered in SD.

When it comes time to transfer to HD, whatever prints they're working from are almost always going to be the theatrical cut. That's the film the studio made and released, and that's what they're going to have in their vaults. Finding and re-completing the original film elements for additional scenes isn't necessarily going to be the easiest thing to do, it may even be impossible.

Prologic9 said:

Finding and re-completing the original film elements for additional scenes isn't necessarily going to be the easiest thing to do, it may even be impossible.

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Ye they somehow managed to do it with the Director's Edition on DVD. You do realize that the Director's Edition DVD was the first time those scenes were presented in Widescreen, so they had to find the original elements to do that.

Potemkin_Prod said:

I thought he was consulted by ABC on lengthening TWOK with additional footage, and that version was pretty much the one that appeared on the DE. In addition to adding a little here or there, iirc, he also changed the takes used in the turbolift scene with Kirk and Saavik.

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I've never seen the ABC version with added scenes, but wasn't there supposedly also an extended scene of Sulu and Kirk in the travel pod discussing Sulu's promotion that never made it to the DE?
Or am I just remembering that from the novel?

Jimini said:

I've never seen the ABC version with added scenes, but wasn't there supposedly also an extended scene of Sulu and Kirk in the travel pod discussing Sulu's promotion that never made it to the DE?
Or am I just remembering that from the novel?

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I've never seen that footage, so I presume it only exists in the novel...

Jimini said:

wasn't there supposedly also an extended scene of Sulu and Kirk in the travel pod discussing Sulu's promotion that never made it to the DE?

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That scene was scripted to tempt George Takei to sign aboard. It was definitely filmed but, supposedly - according to George's usually-humorously-told anecdote - William Shatner deliberately(?) flubbed his lines for each take and it produced no workable footage. But there may never have been an intention to use the scene anyway. It was included in the original novelization (but has been edited to be a promotion to commander, not captain, in the more recent omnibus Signature Edition of the ST II, III, IV novelizations).

It does not appear in the ABC Longer Version. Neither does the white-stuntman-painted-black (as Terrell) tumbling down a hill scene, nor Khan's child at the porthole, nor the scene of him crawling around the Genesis torpedo. The only significant difference between that TV version and the director-approved DVD DE is that intercut Kirk and Saavik closeups are used for the elevator scene in the ABC version. This gives the strong impression that Kirk and Saavik are flirting with each other.

Therin of Andor said:

Jimini said:

wasn't there supposedly also an extended scene of Sulu and Kirk in the travel pod discussing Sulu's promotion that never made it to the DE?

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That scene was scripted to tempt George Takei to sign aboard. It was definitely filmed but, supposedly - according to George's usually-humorously-told anecdote - William Shatner deliberately(?) flubbed his lines for each take and it produced no workable footage.

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Why would Shatner want to do that?

captrek said:

Why would Shatner want to do that?

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When it comes to the man who thought a journey to discover god in a series that was never about religion mixed in with a bunch of comedic antics and out of character moments, you can bet that Shatner is the kind of guy who would think more about what's best for his character than what really serves the story, and god forbid, any of the other characters.

It's kind of funny when you look at The Undiscovered Country that the end battle sequence with Chang really does feel like it's missing one important element. Like when Uhura said "Well, what about all that equipment we are carrying to catalogue gaseous anomalies?". But when you think back to the very beginning of the film, it's the Excelsior that was carrying that equipment as said by Sulu himself. So in effect, the Excelsior was supposed to come in and rescue the Enterprise from Chang, but Shatner didn't want to be rescued by Sulu and demanded they change the script, which SFdebris pointed out made no sense since Kirk was rescued from Rura Penthe just a few hours ago!

I wish Nicholas Meyer got around that plot hole, because without having any knowledge of what went on behind the scenes, it makes the writing of the movie feel incredibly lazy.

If you look at the behind the scenes features on the Star Trek II, Shatner is all about "If they did it my way" all the time that when he discusses how Leonard Nimoy kept some secrets from him, he has a big disappointed look on him. I sort of snickered and said "It was for good reason Bill! You'd screw it up!"

One last thing I'd like to bring up about the Sulu footage in the travel pod is the line "I'm delighted. Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise---". Show that shot to anyone, even to a five year old and they'll tell you that Sulu didn't get to finish his line. Just look at him! He's literally moving his head and opening his mouth ready to finish the line, and the film cuts away mid sentence! I seem to recall somewhere that the full line was "Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise is a treat." What was wrong with that?

The Enterprise WAS carrying the 'gaseous anomaly' equipment in Trek 6.

There was a scene filmed (the 'tour' scene') where Kirk is showing Gorkon the equipment.

But when the studio wants the movie to be 110 minutes and not 120--that's what happens.

Thousands of movies have lines and sub-plots that refer to things that were cut and seem to make no sense. But it wasn't the script or Meyer's fault in this case.


here is the excerpt beginnging with the end of the transporter scene for placement context.............


They turn to find themselves facing an expressionless
Lieutenant Saavik.

LT. SAAVIK
You men have work?

1st CREWMAN
Yes, sir.

LT. SAAVIK
Then snap to it.

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...

GORKON
This cannot be easy for you,
Captain...
(off the look)
I would feel awkward if I had to
give you a tour of OUR vessel...

The man's courtesy makes Kirk feel guilty...

KIRK
Would you care to go topside?

CHANG
Very much.

CHEKOV
(pulling Kirk aside)
Captain, you're not going to show
them the bridge??

KIRK
(clenched teeth)
Full diplomatic courtesy, Mr.
Chekov...

The party passes Uhura and a YOUNGER CREWMAN.

YOUNGER CREWMAN
Would you want your daughter to
marry one?

Grant said:

The Enterprise WAS carrying the 'gaseous anomaly' equipment in Trek 6.

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Oh?

Grant said:

There was a scene filmed (the 'tour' scene') where Kirk is showing Gorkon the equipment.

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**ARGUMENT INVALID**

I'm sorry, but if the scene didn't make the cut, you can't really use that as an argument to justify it's existence. If your movie's logic has to rely on something that didn't make the cut, than something isn't working. In the film, the Excelsior is established to have that equipment since they are on assignment to collect that info, but during the battle at the end, the Enterprise, which was only on an escort mission now all of a sudden has the equipment even though the Excelsior is RIGHT FREAKING THERE.

Grant said:

But when the studio wants the movie to be 110 minutes and not 120--that's what happens.

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Not when it's released on Home Video. Nicholas Meyer has approved no less than three alternate cuts of Star Trek VI and both have been released to home video. The home video version contains several minutes of new footage, so appeasing the studios with a shorter running time is no longer a factor. So, why wasn't that scene included in any of the home video cuts?

**argument invalid**--------------

that's pretty funny.

I was just pointing out some facts not 'making an argument'

As we all know, when movies go from rough cut to theatrical cut there are multiple versions.
I've owned a copy of the script since 1991 and there are a lot of cut scenes.
The rough cut was probably 125 minutes and Meyer, Nimoy and the studio probably had a lot of discussions about what should go. Perhaps Meyer conceeded that scene early as it is before the 'action' starts and studios wanted to get to the action even way back in 1991 when movies were more slowly paced in general.

Both TWOK and TUC have nearly exactly 3 and a half minutes restored for the director's cuts.
3:30 & 3:28 respectively.

I've always heard what Meyer restored to both movies was his final cuts to the movies---that is the stuff that was cut last. That footage would have been more likely to have undergone ADR looping. As we have all seen in deleted scenes sections of DVDs is that the footage is often very poor in several respects including the clarity of the dialogue which has often not been redubbed.

Grant said:

I was just pointing out some facts not 'making an argument'.

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Sure you are. I'm trying to explain why in the context of the film itself that having the Enterprise carrying the gaseous anomaly equipment (which they were never established to having) instead of the Excelsior (which was established to have been carrying) doesn't really match up. You however are trying to make a point that the Enterprise did have that equipment based on footage that was not used. However, I rendered that invalid because it's not in the context of the movie. If you have to rely on things that aren't explained in the context of the film itself, the film is doing something wrong.

I am really enjoying this thread, and it shouldn't really be a competition. You guys are both right. The movie is slightly flawed as it is now, because they explicitly state the Excelsior has the equipment (never on screen implying that the Ent. does too) and then having the climax pivot on the Enterprise having it.

I understand the script covered it, and they even shot the scenes so both ships would be established as having the tech, but once the edits and cuts were made, they should have done something instead of hoping no one would notice that the 'other' ship now had the tech needed to save the day.

Should they have cut the line where Sulu talks about the equipment. Maybe... but then the tech at the end comes out of nowhere. Whould that be better than the tech coming from the wrong ship? Maybe.

There are many things they could have done before finalizing the cut, including asking Takei to re-record that log, simply saying Excelsior, along with Enterprise and a fleet of ships are charting gaseous anomalies.