The final frontier is not that bad, fight me
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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DVDs are okay (I can rip those)
downloads/streaming would be better
ideally a tube tv and an UHF transmission
Especially when compared to NEMESIS, '09, and INTO DARKNESS. The character work and beats in THE FINAL FRONTIER are some of the best of the TOS movies.
TFF isn't...objectively great. But it has heart and Shatner understands how those characters interacted and behaved and directed the film in that manner so the interpersonal moments (mostly) work and in a few cases brilliantly. The effects are 1980s TV-level cheesy and largely don't work and the ShaKaRee entity isn't an effective villain because in part the effects fail the execution and the editing didn't help, neither. Laurence Luckinbill's Sybok, though, is a brillant performance and the best thing about the entire film other than one or two individual scenes.
I'll rewatch TFF in a heartbeat over NEM, STID or even INS, the last of which is in many respects a superior film.
I'll rewatch TFF in a heartbeat over NEM, STID or even INS, the last of which is in many respects a superior film.
I buy physical media for three reasons. It doesn't matter if it's 2023 or the 23rd Century.
1. Actor/Director/Etc Commentaries. They're very insightful most of the time.
2. I only trust Streaming Services up to a certain point. They can take a show or movie off that I like any time. If I have the physical media, then what they do doesn't affect what I have.
3. If I decide to cancel a Streaming Service for whatever reason, I potentially lose access to a series or film I can watch on it, if I don't have the physical media.
We're too dependent on computers. You strike me as an old-schooler. You should be agreeing with me.
It's a solid film in some regards, and complete baffling in others. I think that's part of the charm of it, but there are some scenes that make no sense, including a lot of the comedy. When it is being dramatic, it works very well. But, when it elevates Captain Kirk at the expense of others it flounders.
I'd watch it before all the TNG movies, and TMP, and usually TWOK as a fun adventure. ST 09 and Beyond might surpass it in that way, but still an entertaining movie.
The opening title wiggled en route to the center of the screen. Were they Monty Python, I could understand that.
Though the opening titles by Jerry Goldsmith have that interesting sound effect as the title appears that sounds like a jet engine revving up. The soundtrack of that film is fire.
I think one thing that's really distracting about it is how BAAAADDDDDD the visual effects are. It is really noticeable that ILM is NOT in charge with this movie.
Beyond that, I think the premise is not a bad one. In fact, it really connects to TOS and its themes. But I think it's undermined by a few things.
1. The process by which people are converted seems too easy. I know Shatner supposedly based Sybok on televangelists and religious conversion, but I just feel like Kirk's senior staff, people who have shown they would follow Kirk into hell, wouldn't turn on him and Starfleet as easily as they do in the movie.
2. This is a massive event involving three major powers and yet it feels so small. It's like Starfleet is just the Enterprise, the Klingon Empire is just one rogue Bird-of-Prey, and the Romulans don't give a damn to even care.
3. The humor doesn't work. Shatner does well with some of the interactions (like the "row-row-your-boat" scene) but a lot of the "funny" moments just come off as stupid. All of the Enterprise falling apart jokes don't really work. And neither does Scotty bumping his head on pipes and Spock's rocket boots.
With all that being said, I do think it has one of the best scenes of any of the movies. The scenes where Sybok tries to convert McCoy, Spock, and Kirk are really good. I've always thought of it as a really significant aspect of understanding Kirk as a character that he REFUSES to release his pain, and argues that it defines who he is. In the end, the audience is left in the dark as to even what Kirk's pain is, but we do know that he values it.
And I've always been more in the Kirk camp of thinking that "closure" on pain is an illusion. People close on houses, not their emotions.
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TOS Space seed - would like to watch this from a 2023 production reboot, a professional officer running off to be with an ancient dictator who mistreats her would have to be retconned
Can’t. I’ll happily second for you though
I think this is came about due to well meaning individuals, even in my own industry, and philosophers, who wanted people to "forgive and forget" as a means of moving on. And, that's really not accurate, nor necessarily a healthy way to resolve pain. Much of our experiences and growth as individuals, and even the strengths that we posses, are exposed and built up by the encountering of painful circumstances that would not otherwise prompt us to rise to the occasion. To forget that is to forget some of the lessons that come with it. Or, avoid fear related items altogether, and so avoid much of life, rather that strength can come in facing and overcoming that fear.
I think Kirk's "I need my pain" is as much his integration of those hurts in to his experience as well as learning from those lessons. In the same way he needs both sides of himself ("The Enemy Within) he needs that pain; not as a closure; but as a reminder of his own potential in the face adversity.
Interesting, it depends on ones definition of 'closure', to close does not meant to forget, for me its a form of acceptance of the situation, its like a wound that is healed over, that has stopped bleeding and hurting, the scar is there but it does not hold one body back.
It’s literally such a comfort film. Do I care about the plot? No. Do I adore every interaction between the old men? Yes. But then again that’s my grading systems for most films and shows (super high level film analysis right there)
I tend to agree, but more and more I see closure, especially in grief groups and such, meaning, "Forget about it."
Which always troubled me.
(Watching this now) TOS This side of paradise had 150 colonists, that cannot be enough for genetic diversity. Were they planning to hook up with their first cousins?
The next series should follow the (up until ENT) 90's model of new series and have, say, a trans captain, on a previously unseen kind of starship, with an entirely new name, in an entirely new region on "the far end" of Federation space, set shortly after PICARD. It should include a diverse cast, an (at this point) non-humanoid regular, be showrun by someone with diverse life experience, and include original timely storytelling by some of the best science fiction writers of today. The Federation should continue to be an aspirational if somewhat hazy society that we might envision for ourselves. The setting should include a general evolution of the sociopolitical factors previously established...come to think of it, a lot of that could go in a LEGACY series, leaving this new one to be about the strange new worlds yet to be discovered and the great next step in the larger human adventure just beginning.
No prequels, no post-apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic in name only distant sequels, no reboots of previously seen characters, and only a TNG-like smattering of previously seen aliens. Do new stuff. Even if it doesn't all work keep doing it until enough of it does.
No prequels, no post-apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic in name only distant sequels, no reboots of previously seen characters, and only a TNG-like smattering of previously seen aliens. Do new stuff. Even if it doesn't all work keep doing it until enough of it does.
I am. I miss my VHS player and the clickitty clackitty whirrry sounds it made when loading or ejecting a tape.
Pulaski begs to differ! From Up The Long Ladder:
So multiple partners is preferable, but not essential
The original European colonies in North America were about that big. I believe the idea (and history) was they expected others to come join them in subsequent years. Initially growth would be through immigration.
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