Quark's root beer analogy of the Federation

Good evening.

I wonder how many people here fully agreed with Quark's observation of how The Federation pulls in new member species. Just how biased was DS9's resident Ferengi bartender?

 

I thought Quark was full of shit.

Not as miuch as Eddington, but close.

I mean, the Federation doesn't "pull in" anyone. They invite new members in, but if those worlds don't want to join, they don't have to. So what's the big deal?

 

I think Quark is quite accurate the Federation tries to put every single one of its actions, even the most self-serving ones, in the light of reason and civilization. The Federation will never admit that it wants Bajor to join so that it can be a staging ground against the Cardassians or later because it has strategic value due to the wormhole.

No, it's always for the Bajorans benefit!

They even believe it themselves, which must be exhausting for Quark and Garak to always deal with people that can't even admit to themselves they're not perfect.

 

Perhaps not.

But ultimately the choice is still up to Bajor. Reason notwithstanding, the Federation did not force Bajor to join, nor did it employ sneaky or underhanded methods to get it to do so. You'll notice that when Sisko recommended that Bajor withdraw its application to join, the Federation left them alone.

So I'm not really getting why the Federation is supposed to be the bad guy here.

 

Hopefully not out of line, but it sounds like people are maybe remembering Quark saying something that he doesn't in "the root beer scene"...

Quark "What do you think?"
Garak "It's vile."
Quark "It's so bubbly and cloying and happy."
Garak "Just like the Federation."
Quark "But you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it."

 

That's actually Quark's point.

Quark and Garak are overwhelmed by the "love bombing" the Federation do and how they constantly are portraying themselves as good guys and wielding what you'd call in politics "soft power." They've offered significant financial and military assistance to Bajor that the planet can't afford to refuse. The Federation will never threaten Bajor into joining but it's very good at making the planet dependent on its help. That in the end, its interests are so tied up in the Federation that it will join and be happy about it.

Quark and Garak's argument is the Federation doesn't even seem to realize it's doing this.

And both are acknowledging its happening to THEM too. Neither likes the Federation but both have been working with it extensively now.

 

One of the huge benefits of having a predominantly alien crew, you get to explore human preconceptions and ideals from very different viewpoints and give an outsider perspective on how humans and the Federations are viewed upon, immediately creating far more interesting characters than yet more bland humans.

 

So what's the alternative? What would YOU suggest the Federation do?

Sure, they're constantly portrayed as the good guys...because that's exactly what they ARE. Better than the reverse, anyway!

 

I had A & W root beer once and it fucking sucks. I thought it was going to taste like Dr. Pepper but it was like some detergent mixed with lighter fluid. So I guess that conversation lands differently to me, like "here drink this crap, and the Federation is a metaphor for this horrible tasting shit, boy aren't we glad they're our only hope." No, not really.

 

The Federation can't help it if they really ARE awesome.

 

These days, it is supremely difficult to find a decent root beer; I've had luck starting with the glass bottle variety (they feature actual cane sugar in place of high-fructose corn syrup).

 

Root beer is a very Americanised thing as well, would've loved if they were having the conversation over an Irn Bru!

 

Ghost pirate Le Chuck disagrees.

 

I know the feeling, I am such an awesome person that it is tough for some (most) people who knows me. But I feel pitty for everyone who doesn't know me

 

Kind of off topic but I wonder how we know what lighter fluid tastes like? O_o

Hmmm...I must be very lucky then, because I utilize Henry Weinhart's, as well as go to a local brewery for my root beer. I will assume this is not common everywhere though.

Root bear is amazing though.

Ok, more on topic, I think it's just an illustration of how these two from different backgrounds view the Federation. For the Ferengi there is always a price, and for Garak there is always an ulterior motive. The Federation, for the most part, isn't trying to be that way.

 

I mean, isn't that the point of the analogy?

How it ends is that both Quark and Garak are still allied with it.

 

Reason #100000 why DS9 is the greatest Trek.

 

Yeah after I typed it out I realised I was basing it all on one brand's version and maybe should try some other. I noticed Bundaberg has a root beer so maybe I'll give that one a go.

 

Michael Eddington didn't fancy the root beer; Maquis Kool-Aid was his flavor. The man's rant sounded like a thinly-disguised writer's polemic.

 

That's strange. I've had A&W rootbeer quite a few times and it never tasted as bad as that. I wonder if you got a bad batch or wrong proportion of syrup to soda water or something. "Vile" is supposed to be a metaphore.