News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman

Yeah, that's what I assumed Jayson1 was alluding to (hence my "in any case").

 

So we already have the Supers, the Amazons, and now the Bats... when can we expect the Lanterns to show up?

 

Well, there have been a lot of references already.
https://screenrant.com/arrow-cw-green-lantern-easter-eggs/

 

I want BLack Lightning to appear in some way...even if it is just a news clip, or an action figure! (the latter can keep things more nebulous as to where they fit in)

 

If it were allowed, introducing Batwoman could lay the groundwork for incorporating Gotham into the Arrowverse. Batwoman could perhaps mention Jerome or Jeremiah, the proto Jokers or perhaps an event that only happened in Gotham.

 

Why haven't they officially made "BLack Lightning" part of the Arrowverse? It makes perfect since and it makes both the show and the shared universe more deep than if they aren't connected.

Jason

 

Can't be. Gotham had its own incompatible versions of Ra's al Ghul, Firefly, and probably other characters.

For one thing, it's filmed in Atlanta instead of Vancouver. For another, what's the rush? It's still only a year old. It makes more sense to let the show be itself and do what it needs to do. Crossovers are an optional bonus, not something more important than the good of each individual show. And given the well-established multiverse at this point, it'd always be possible to fold in BL as a parallel Earth eventually, so until then, it's free to do its own thing.

 

I guess their is no rush but it's a kind of question that doesn't go away. Granted that might be part of the appeal as well. Everyone knows it will happen so if you can keep up the suspense and wonder when it happens and that can be a good thing. Plus with the show being good it's not like people are being letdown by any connection so far. I just hope they don't wait until the show hits a rocky path like maybe season 2 not feeling as good as season 1 so it ends up looking like a gimmick to boost ratings.

Jason

 

Well the first crossover between Supergirl and the rest of the Arrowverse took place late in her first season so it's never too soon for a crossover. My concern of BL is part of the Arrowverse is that in the UK Sky One screens Supergirl, The Flash, DC's Legends of Tomorrow & Arrow, but Black Lightning is on Netflix which would make crossovers impractical. Can I ask, since I haven't seen Black Lightning, in a non-spoilery way could you say why Black Lightning should be in on yet another parallel Earth instead of on either of the Earths already established?

 

Good points, but it could still be established as taking place on a parallel world. It just can't take place on Earth-1 and possibly not Earth-38 either.

 

But it's not mandatory either. Like I said, the show's own needs come first. It's something that would be fun if it happened, but the show isn't doing anything wrong by not doing a crossover.

It's not entirely clear yet, but it probably can't be on Earth-38 because there have been references to Obama and Trump being presidents, so no Olivia Marsdin. And it probably can't be Earth-1 because metahumans like Black Lightning were publicly known at least 9 years ago, well before the STAR Labs explosion. Also, it seems to be a world that has its own Supergirl and Vixen, since both heroes have been name-dropped.

But in the Arrowmultiverse, parallel worlds tend to have identical doppelgangers of the same people, while the Gotham versions are played by different actors. Besides, it's just too crazy and freaky a show. I'd rather see it stay apart as its own thing.

 

The way the name-drops have been phrased, however, so far leaves it ambiguous whether Supergirl and Vixen are real people or fictional characters in Black Lightning's world.

 

I was just thinking that, whoever they cast, I think this is one case where they should stay comic accurate. Her specific appearance as a really pale redhead is about as iconic as you can get for a B-list superhero, and her original comic series really showed how striking her comic appearance is (with a few examples spoiled for size)

Spoiler

At this point I usually don't even consider the race of an actor really mattering unless its super important (like, say, Black Panther obviously), especially since we've gotten pretty great characters like Valkyrie who you definitely wouldn't want to lose just because she's not some Scandinavian looking woman. But I think trying to match the comic Batwoman as close as possible physically (although the red hair could just be hair dye) is actually something I'd consider semi-important to the character. I think her look is important, and is not just something that was done as the "default" choice back in the day. As good of a character as she is, I think the Batwoman aesthetic really kind of needs her to look a certain way, or she's not really a version of the modern Batwoman.

 

I agree.
Also, the artwork by J.H.Williams III in Elegy and the New 52 solo title is some of the best comic book art in the last decade or so(and Vol 1-4 are good stories as well), definite recommend, it can often be found on comixology sales for cheap.

 

Tommy Merlyn alluded to Obama in the pilot of Arrow and then there was the young Obama in the penultimate episode of DC's Legends of Tomorrow season three. I'm pretty certain that Obama was again at least alluded to in season one of Supergirl when Cat Grant talked about Hillary Clinton losing the nomination in 2008. And in episode three of this season which featured Maggie Sawyer's father he made reference to 'the wall' Trump's on about putting up so references to real world presidents aren't necessarily a bar to the show being set in either Earth's 1 or 38. Though the whole business about metahumans being known of 9 years ago is a difficult one to reconcile. I suppose there's the whole Justice Society back in World War II on Earth 1 and on Earth 38 where there's been a Superman for at least a decade, would metahumans be that big a deal?

 

Yes, it's pretty clear now that Obama and Trump exist on Earth-1, despite the different presidents seen in "Invasion!" Which is why I only mentioned those two in connection with Earth-38.

Well, Marsdin was president both before and after 2016, so she must've been elected to her first term in 2012. Perhaps on Earth-38, Obama served one term and Marsdin replaced him -- even though they're both Democrats.

But in the season premiere, Cat Grant's news conference attributed Trump-like comments to "the Speaker." Apparently the same overall social dynamics are in place there, but not in the person of Trump himself.

After all, Trump didn't think up the wall idea himself. It was invented by his campaign staff because it was the only policy idea simple enough to stick in their candidate's memory for more than five minutes (and because it involves construction, something he has some experience with). And it worked because it tapped into the xenophobia that already existed among a certain segment of the electorate. So take away Trump and the other factors that led to the wall rhetoric would still exist.

Obviously each world has to be treated separately. The whole reason Supergirl had to be on a different Earth was because there was no way to reconcile its history, where aliens and superpowered beings were well-known over a decade ago, with Earth-1's history, where they've only recently become known. So it doesn't work to conflate the two in the same question. The president issue is only a problem on Earth-38, and the metahuman issue is only a problem on Earth-1. Different realities, different inconsistencies.

And yes, we know that the JSA existed on Earth-1, but their existence was classified and the general public didn't know about them. The issue here is not the existence of earlier metas, only the public's awareness of them. Even now, as recently as last week, Team Flash is always surprised when they learn about metahumans who weren't created in the STAR Labs accelerator explosion. And we've seen plenty of characters on Arrow and The Flash, notably Diggle and Quentin, struggling to accept and adjust to the idea that there are superpowered people in the world in the past few years. So any prior metas that existed could not have been publicly known about. They would've had to operate in secret, like the JSA. But Black Lightning was a celebrity in his heyday, well-known to his community and covered in the media.

 

The name drops in question felt like they were talking about fictional characters, the way you would refer to Mr. Hyde or Spider-Man--a cultural reference so well known, that they are used as general examples of real world behavior or action.

 

Apologies about that. I misread your earlier email and thought you were including Earth-1.

The one thing I could argue, is retconning. If it furnished the needs of a story I've no doubt that they'd let it slip that there'd been metahumans before the particle accelerator explosion. Heck, given that its been established there's a Themyscira on Earth-1 perhaps Wonder Woman has been around. Or perhaps in the past nine years, Black Lightning has become little more than an urban legend. Again having not seen the show I do wonder whether the media depiction of him is as a costumed vigilante or someone with superpowers? His abilities being explained away as 'tech' rather than abilities. I can't help but wonder whether the on-screen reason for there being no reference to Batman thus far is that he's an urban legend with sightings being treated like those of the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot - I obviously know the off-screen reason for it. They did try this approach for a time in the comics before the 'New-52'.
You do raise an interesting point though about re: John Diggle & Quentin Lance about how people seem to react to the strange events and individuals presented to them which you see a lot of it in comics as well. For instance in the comics I've seen multiple references to people watching 'The X-Files' on TV which, if you think about it logically doesn't make sense. In a world of magic, monsters, alien invasions and metahumans, a show with a premise like that wouldn't work. I know it's done as real world identification for the readers, but still. You also see people all the time reacting with incredulity to these incredible individuals & events and in the comics there's even less excuse for people responding with shock and disbelief given that in the comics this kind of thing has been established for far longer than in the TV shows.

 

They already have, on multiple occasions. As I already said, the issue is not whether the metahumans existed, but whether they were publicly known to exist. The Arrowverse shows have made it clear that the general public was not aware of the existence of superpowers until the STAR Labs explosion brought them into the open.

That hasn't been established. But the government certainly knew about metahumans.

Also, again, Black Lightning is in a universe that has its own Supergirl. She's been name-dropped more than any other superhero other than the show's own leads. And Earth-1 has only briefly glimpsed Supergirl during two major invasions, so they probably don't know enough about her to elevate her above Earth-1's other heroes in their awareness.

That's a bit too much like the Birds of Prey TV series. Still, I suppose it's possible that Bruce was better at keeping a low profile than Ollie was.

 

I would argue the conclusivity of this statement. Supergirl being name-checked on Black Lightning doesn't necessarily mean that she exists as a real person.

And the same thing applies to Vixen.