CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Richard Baker, Dec 30, 2015.

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  1. muCephi

    muCephi Commodore Commodore

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    COMPUTER [sigh] Billy the Kid. Aaa-gain.

    ---
    Trek follows the conceit of advanced computing systems running a ship, but its nothing to slow it down to the pace that humans can speak "do it mister" and "aye aye sir". "They're firing energy beams!" "Raise shields!". Acoustic coupler on your ethernet, anyone?

    So all the bridge talk, in fact almost all the computer talk with an AI that could anticipate most followup actions to a request is a teleplay metaphor, already silly. Any script that's going to go down this route has to be very conscious of not making it even more obviously silly, such as 3d grade dialog in the above cases.
     
  2. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Commodore Commodore

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    Nah, that's not the reason.

    [​IMG]

    1) "hard earned money"
    [​IMG]

    2) "I don't care"
    [​IMG]

    :D
     
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  3. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    None of it has been "earned"...........:brickwall:
     
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  4. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    AREV​
    The frequency is proving illusive.​

    Ahem. Elusive. Illusive means deceptive, illusory... like the Axanar project.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  5. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't recall who came up with the term "grandfathering". It certainly wasn't part of the interview that i could recall.
    But doing a title search for 'guidelines' brought up the exact interview we were discussing - one of the top results.
    And this here's the money quote about what CBS thinks of all this:
    You can read the entire BBS transcript HERE or the Trek Fans Productions transcript HERE or HERE for a more detailed analyses.
    Having re-read @Wowbagger's transcript, JVC seems intentionally vague about films still in production but not finished, or films already finished shooting but still in post. So it seems that "grandfathering" is not so clear-cut after all.
     
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  6. Sgt_G

    Sgt_G Commodore Commodore

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    But it was hard-earned money.

    He had to travel all around the country (for free) and go to all the conventions (for free) to beg for money. He even had to fly to Europe (upgraded seats for cupcakes) to beg for money (because he tapped out donors in America). I mean, he worked HARD for that money.
     
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  7. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    I'm flying to Rome in the morning..........gotta remember to pick up some cupcakes on the way to the airport!
     
  8. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Make sure you use the Kickstarter money for those.
     
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  9. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, pretty much. Why would CBS expect people to open themselves up to legal peril just to produce content the compliments their product?
    Part of me wishes they'd do that because at least then fans would know where they stand. Quite frankly, it would be a strange relief.
    All of those definitions can be interpreted as either referring to criminal acts involving physical property or the seizing of physical property, depending on which definition of "take" or "appropriate" you choose.

    Furthermore, courts already make a distinction between the two:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#.22Theft.22
    "Intellectual Property" is hardly an uncontroversial term:

    https://www.eff.org/issues/intellectual-property/the-term
    My initial argument wasn't the definition of stealing, but that the use of the term was as inflammatory as the term "draconian". Professor Zoom argued that "stealing" and "theft" couldn't be inflammatory because the terms were literal descriptions. So you have him to thank for starting the semantics debate, not me.
    I think we're conflating trademarks on titles with trademarks on character names. Both are possible, but in the instance of Buffy, there actually isn't a trademark for the character herself, so it doesn't matter.
    Actually, I'd say that person was guilty of copyright fraud, because they'd have to register the copyright prior to publication, and the registration would be fraudulent. I'm pretty sure you could register your own copyright, get theirs invalidated, and sue them for infringement.
    You used the phrase "stealing someone's idea". Who's the someone? The copyright holder or the person who conceived the idea? If the latter, does the term stealing apply if they're no longer the copyright holder?
    No, we don't agree, because I don't consider it "stealing". And it's problematic to consider it stealing, as it can be "stealing" one day and "fair use" the next. Not to mention the fact that someone may not even take it to court because they lack the money. I guess if you're poor, you're a thief no matter what, huh?
    You can't make that determination sight-unseen. Copyright is complex, and it's common to have a difference of opinion on what's fair use and what's not.
    The same people who would NOT license something, then look the other way when an unlicensed entity makes use of their copyright. Contracts and licenses are rarely enforced absolutely. Often times, minor infractions are ignored because it isn't worth the effort.
    If I include a character in a non-Star Trek story, I'm free to copyright. You can argue the purity of CBS's motives, but the guidelines give them cover to basically copyright your character out from under you by your own admission.
    I don't think so. We're not talking about a license of the same type that you see with official books and other materials. A fan license would require people to identify content as such. They'd be required to post disclaimers, explicitly label their films as fan productions, and would be prohibited from using trademarked logos or direct footage, just like they are under the current guidelines. A layperson isn't going to be aware of the legal distinction without someone telling them about it anyways.
     
  10. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't see why a distinction or license needs to be made at all. CBS has imposed guidelines that would allow them to 'consider' participating fan-films as non-infringing. Taking the next step and issuing a sort of license is unnecessary and ill-advised.
     
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  11. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Thanks Zoom! I was gonna pay out of pocket! I have so much to learn!
     
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  12. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably another typo (or the scriptwriter lacks reading comprehension) - he probably meant to use the word: Elusive. ;)
     
  13. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why would it be ill-advised to codify the status quo? Perhaps CBS doesn't have a pressing need to do it, but fan have no cause to stick their necks out either.
     
  14. trynda1701

    trynda1701 Commodore Commodore

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    So regarding Peters' suggestions for guidelines, I didnt fancy going thru the Axanar site, so I prepared myself for a bit of a slog thru Google searches which kept bringing up the CBS Guidelines. But then I found Peters suggested list on, guess where, Axamonitor!

    http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=axanar_guidelines

    Seeing how long this has being going on, that's probably why I forgot it could be there!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  15. Mr. Nova

    Mr. Nova Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly! If a fan doesn't want to risk being sued for straying from the guidelines then he shouldn't stray. He should make his fan film in the "safe zone" that CBS/P has provided and not stick their neck out. If he doesn't feel comfortable with that then he shouldn't make a fan film. It's a simple choice. You can wish all you want that CBS would codify their guidelines, but it's not going to happen because of the complexity of copyright law and the need to protect their rights and their stakeholder's rights.
     
  16. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nonsense. From a technical perspective, the licensing issues aren't significantly different from what you'd see with open source license case law. It may be unfamiliar territory for a studio, but it can be done.

    The lack of a fan license has far more to do with fans letting them get away with it. Trust me, if the number of fan works just dropped off a cliff for a few years, and everyone let CBS know it was due to a lack of fan licensing, CBS would do something. It's just that the will in the community isn't there yet.
     
  17. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    I never said they couldn't be inflammatory. I never mentioned inflammatory. I didn't even say that draconian was inflammatory. I said it was childish and entitled to call the guidelines inflammatory.

    You don't think the comic book "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" is trademarked?

    1. You don't actually need to register your work for their to be a copyright. A work is copyrighted from the moment of its creation. Registering it is a good idea because then--if you were to win a infringement suit--there are statuary damages that come with that registration. You might get damages without.

    2. Copyright requires something to be in a fixed form. An idea isn't in a fixed form. So, you would have to write the book. And even then, so what? An idea isn't copyrightable. You shared your idea. Someone else wrote it. There's very little you could do about that.

    3. And what the hell is copyright fraud? It wouldn't be fraudulent. The book would've been written by the person you told the story to. How is that fraud? Fraud would be if I took YOUR BOOK and registered it under my name. But, me taking, stealing, your idea, isn't fraud.

    Well. I can't steal something from you if it's not yours, can I? If you sold your toys to your best friend, and I stole them from your best friend, did I steal from you?

    YOU consider it problematic to call it stealing. You don't like the idea that something you enjoy maybe isn't totally kosher. And there is a difference between Fair Use and out and out stealing of IP.

    And what the hell, if you're poor, you're a thief no matter what? Stop clutching your pearls, you know I'm not making that argument.

    How would they copyright YOUR character? Maybe you could sue them for copyright fraud? Do you HONESTLY think they are watching Star Trek fan films so they can copyright characters?

    It's why they don't accept submissions anymore. They don't want to deal with some fan claiming that CBS and Paramount stole one of their ideas.
     
  18. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Commodore Commodore

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    On what planet are fan works that important to a major IP-owning corporation?
     
  19. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    This one, apparently. :shrug:
     
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  20. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Would that corporation even KNOW if fan works dropped off?
     
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