I thought she was a greatly developed character in TWoK and, while I get that he wouldn't want or expect another actress to just mimic Alley, don't see why the interpretation was so different and in my opinion less interesting (pretty objectively less unique).
Why did Nimoy portray Saavik as colder than in II?
- Thread starter suarezguy
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I dunno. A bit of jealousy?
When Spock was rumoured to have been killed off, Saavik and David were already being touted as the "new generation" who were to be groomed as the possible focus of future Trek telemovies, and Kirk only making guest appearances. Decker and Ilia ("Phase II") had gone, and fan rumour was that Saavik might somehow inherit Spock's gifts, long before any of us knew what that "Remember!" scene would lead to.
A female Spock and her young-Kirk-offspring love interest, David. The synopsis for "ST III: Return to Genesis" suggested Spock would return as a vampiric-looking presence in people's cabin mirrors.
Many fans were saying, "Oh well, if Spock's gone, at least we still have Saavik." Then, suddenly, new broke that Nimoy himself postulated himself as director at the ST II wrap party. And the script for ST III ended up with numerous actors playing Spock. They could have easily beamed him up one incarnation earlier and releaved Nimoy of acting duties if the director decided he didn't want to stick around. And don't forget, Kirstie Alley also played Saavik in a post-ST II "radio play" live on stage (penned by Walter Koenig) at an LA convention called "Ultimate Fantasy" (later dubbed "Ultimate Fiasco" and "The Con of Wrath").
But yeah, Nimoy forbid Robin Curtis from watching Alley's ST II performance and told her "Colder, say it colder..." when David was killed. He had seemingly reinterpreted the character for her as a full Vulcan.
I always figured this to be a truth. Saavik in STII was implied to be part-Romulan, part-Vulcan (and confirmed as such in the novelization). In STIII and STIV, Nimoy instead reconceptualized her as fully Vulcan.
Re: Why did Nimoy portray Saavik as colder than
I definitely liked Alley's version better. I liked her personality. And she was sexy! I assumed she was part something since her eyebrows were not the Vulcan normal. Though it was less creepy to see the pon farr performed in a more cold manner by Curtis with a teenage Spock.
I definitely liked Alley's version better. I liked her personality. And she was sexy! I assumed she was part something since her eyebrows were not the Vulcan normal. Though it was less creepy to see the pon farr performed in a more cold manner by Curtis with a teenage Spock.
I like both interpretations of the character.
I'm still cranky about Kirstie Alley ditching the role, presumably for more money.
On the upside, the term Kirstie-Alleying can now be applied to any actor who bails on a role for no good reason.
On the upside, the term Kirstie-Alleying can now be applied to any actor who bails on a role for no good reason.
So Terry Farrell totally Kirstie Alleyed the part of Jadzia Dax?I'm still cranky about Kirstie Alley ditching the role, presumably for more money.
On the upside, the term Kirstie-Alleying can now be applied to any actor who bails on a role for no good reason.
Indeed! Could also be applied to Terrence Howard and Edward Norton in regards to Marvel films too.
At least Kirstie Alley isn't the girl from Star Trek like our dear Denise.
Yeah, the rounded eyebrows are the biggest hint that Alley!Saavik and Curtis!Saavik are two different approaches to the character.....
One thing I don't know about is if Nimoy misunderstood the Saavik character to have actually been fully Vulcan, or whether he deliberately made that decision to change her. It's possible that by the time he got in the director's chair in STIII he didn't remember any of that stuff that had been established about her, hence his instructions to Curtis to keep her performance "cold".
It's doubly ironic that the Saavik expy in STVI, Valeris, is stated to be fully Vulcan but she's got far more in common with Alley's Saavik than with the Curtis interpretation.
My understanding is that Alley was up for it, but her agent was the one who got cocky and decided to play hard-ball with the producers, and it backfired when they just came back with a "thanks but no thanks". I've read that she was actually devistated to learn she wouldn't be returning (and I wouldn't be surprised if she fired that agent afterwards).
One thing I don't know about is if Nimoy misunderstood the Saavik character to have actually been fully Vulcan, or whether he deliberately made that decision to change her. It's possible that by the time he got in the director's chair in STIII he didn't remember any of that stuff that had been established about her, hence his instructions to Curtis to keep her performance "cold".
It's doubly ironic that the Saavik expy in STVI, Valeris, is stated to be fully Vulcan but she's got far more in common with Alley's Saavik than with the Curtis interpretation.
I'm still cranky about Kirstie Alley ditching the role, presumably for more money.
On the upside, the term Kirstie-Alleying can now be applied to any actor who bails on a role for no good reason.
My understanding is that Alley was up for it, but her agent was the one who got cocky and decided to play hard-ball with the producers, and it backfired when they just came back with a "thanks but no thanks". I've read that she was actually devistated to learn she wouldn't be returning (and I wouldn't be surprised if she fired that agent afterwards).
This scene is high on my list of reasons I don't like this version of Saavik.
When Lenny took the job of directing TSFS, he has been very clear about the fact that The Studio would not get off his ass the entire shoot. Even getting to direct this movie, which seems so obvious and logical to do, was almost reluctantly given to him with the reasoning - or the excuse - that his book stated how he really hated STAR TREK in general and Spock, in particular. None of it true, of course. This was cleared up through subsequent discussion, but there was a lot of lost time, as a result. And it may have even had to do with the fact that Nimoy had the brass balls to sue Paramount in the first place for use of his image, prior to TMP.
So, on top of all of that political nonsense, once he finally did get the job of directing, he's immediately handed the problem of Kirstie not reprising the role. Leonard simply went the path of least resistance and I don't blame him for it, at all. He practically invented the Vulcans, through Spock, so he followed his strengths. He emphasized Saavik's Vulcan attributes, which he understood extremely well and solved this problem that way. Kirstie Alley put her stamp all over the Saavik character, without her, Saavik was going to be dramatically different whichever way it went. Nimoy was right to handle it the way he did, with all of the pressure he was under.
So, on top of all of that political nonsense, once he finally did get the job of directing, he's immediately handed the problem of Kirstie not reprising the role. Leonard simply went the path of least resistance and I don't blame him for it, at all. He practically invented the Vulcans, through Spock, so he followed his strengths. He emphasized Saavik's Vulcan attributes, which he understood extremely well and solved this problem that way. Kirstie Alley put her stamp all over the Saavik character, without her, Saavik was going to be dramatically different whichever way it went. Nimoy was right to handle it the way he did, with all of the pressure he was under.
I always just think that Curtis's Saavik had learned to hide her emotions better. Emotions are supposed to be under the surface of Vulcans anyways, so it works. I like Alley and Curtis both as Saavik. I do prefer Alley's performance, but the biggest difference in her personality is because of the direction.
I'm still cranky about Kirstie Alley ditching the role, presumably for more money.
On the upside, the term Kirstie-Alleying can now be applied to any actor who bails on a role for no good reason.
By all accounts, She was offered the same money, which in acting terms (two years on, as someone established in the role) meant less money.
ISTR that someone, Harve Bennett maybe, thought they'd then get into negotiations to give her a slight rise having made it clear that it couldn't be a massive one ((ie, no matching Shatner!) but then it all went silent, and Nimoy didn't seem to care anyway.
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