I see this thread went to discuss Klingons, in universe and in real life. It's always the Klingons. Why nobody never cared as much to the Romulan foreheads?
Klingon forehead problem - Romulan forehead problem
- Thread starter Shat Happens
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Probably because they came later, were subtler, and were never made an issue of onscreen. I mean, why do so few people care about all the changing designs and positions of Andorian antennae? Or about how the Tiburons gained head spines in DS9: "The Ship" that they didn't have in TOS: "The Way to Eden"? Or about how the Ferengi in early TNG didn't have the pronounced cheekbones they had later on? Or about how Worf has a completely different forehead in the first season than he does afterward? Some things, we're just content to chalk up to makeup refinements.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
The Rom ridge issue is always annoying to me because it introduces all sorts of craziness. Did they grow these in less than 2000 years after bailing from Vulcan? Did the ridges on Vulcans just disappear because they suppressed them along with their emotions? Why doesn't Spock stick out like a sore thumb on Romulus when he seems to be the only one w/o the ridges there? (does he just explain himself away saying he got his head caught in a mechanical rice picker, & that a skilled surgeon saved his eyesight by amputating his browridge? That still doesn't explain WHY the roms have them.)
When you've got ALL TOS-era klingons without ridges, that's cool (even if their facial makeup differs.) Same with the features, even if the ridges are very dif from film to film. But when you start mixing&matching within the same subfranchise, it just seems stupid, given trek's history with the Vulc/rom divergence.
When you've got ALL TOS-era klingons without ridges, that's cool (even if their facial makeup differs.) Same with the features, even if the ridges are very dif from film to film. But when you start mixing&matching within the same subfranchise, it just seems stupid, given trek's history with the Vulc/rom divergence.
Not only do the Romulans have ridges, but they have overdone makeup to make them more yellow/greenish than Vulcans were ever given. They look positively sickly. Also, they are all given the same exact barbie-doll quality wig with the pointed front. None of them are allowed to have any sort of non-standard hairstyles, including the women. So they come across very cookie-cutter.
I agree that the decision seems to be motivated purely in order to try to impress people by making the alien species look "more alien" via more latex and face-paint, and this wound up running rough-shod over continuity.
I agree that the decision seems to be motivated purely in order to try to impress people by making the alien species look "more alien" via more latex and face-paint, and this wound up running rough-shod over continuity.
I think the Romulan forehead is more of a racial thing- some have them, some do not. Most who do have (in TNG) more positions of power, hence more screen time.
The Proto-Vulcanoid natives in 'Who watches the Watchers?" had the Romulan head ridges as well.
The Proto-Vulcanoid natives in 'Who watches the Watchers?" had the Romulan head ridges as well.
Also, Romulan fashion dictates padded shoulders on all their outfits
Romulans might go for uniformity of fashion as their equivalent of Surakism: they suppress their great passion not by suppressing emotional thought, but by suppressing emotional costuming and hairstyling!
Umm, that's where I seriously disagree, because the case in point is a good demonstration of the fun that will follow from trying. After all, a starship making tight turns above a planet makes sense in the Trek context - and in the Trek context alone!
That is, we are told time and again that transporters are line-of-sight devices that struggle to penetrate even a few kilometers of bedrock. Naturally, then, a starship mindful of her landing party would choose to orbit in a tight figure eight or somesuch directly above the survey site, rather than spend most of a freefall orbit below the horizon.
Explaining always trumps accepting, because it adds to what has already been created for Star Trek, rather than merely repeating it.
As for Romulan ridges, well, "racial" may well be the best word to describe Romulans as a culture. For all we know, they left Vulcan because Surakists ridiculed their foreheads, and took a few "Hey, some of my closest friends are ridgeheads!" supporters with them. Certainly they themselves appear racially or racistically disposed later on.
We could also argue that ridges are a sign of virility or vigor on Vulcanoids (perhaps also an atavism like the big jaws or brow lines on modern human males), and Romulans undergo plastic surgery or genetic engineering to emphasize that, sometimes to ridiculous lengths - whereas Vulcans, some of whom have noticeable natural bulges themselves, shun such emotional idiocy as a matter of principle. And some may even deliberately (and secretly) suppress their ridges so as not to be accused of emotional idiocy...
Timo Saloniemi
Umm, that's where I seriously disagree, because the case in point is a good demonstration of the fun that will follow from trying. After all, a starship making tight turns above a planet makes sense in the Trek context - and in the Trek context alone!
That is, we are told time and again that transporters are line-of-sight devices that struggle to penetrate even a few kilometers of bedrock. Naturally, then, a starship mindful of her landing party would choose to orbit in a tight figure eight or somesuch directly above the survey site, rather than spend most of a freefall orbit below the horizon.
Explaining always trumps accepting, because it adds to what has already been created for Star Trek, rather than merely repeating it.
As for Romulan ridges, well, "racial" may well be the best word to describe Romulans as a culture. For all we know, they left Vulcan because Surakists ridiculed their foreheads, and took a few "Hey, some of my closest friends are ridgeheads!" supporters with them. Certainly they themselves appear racially or racistically disposed later on.
We could also argue that ridges are a sign of virility or vigor on Vulcanoids (perhaps also an atavism like the big jaws or brow lines on modern human males), and Romulans undergo plastic surgery or genetic engineering to emphasize that, sometimes to ridiculous lengths - whereas Vulcans, some of whom have noticeable natural bulges themselves, shun such emotional idiocy as a matter of principle. And some may even deliberately (and secretly) suppress their ridges so as not to be accused of emotional idiocy...
Timo Saloniemi
I always wondered what possible system they could have for those varying color patterns on Romulan military uniforms. It has absolutely nothing to do with position or rank, I know that much. Family or clan affiliation, maybe?
Watching TOS as a kid, I always wondered how there could be so many aliens that looked virtually identical to humans (and I do recall Spock explaining about an ancient humanoid race spreading their seed throughout the galaxy), so I was fine with Klingons suddenly having ridges for the movies. But it annoyed me that Romulans suddenly got ridges because they were supposed to be identical to Vulcans. Chekov was having trouble distinguishing them with a sensor. It also annoyed me that suddenly every Romulan had to have the same cookie-cutter hair style. Did Mark Leonard have that hair style? The lady commander in EI? I think not.
And while I'm complaining, the Romulans in TOS had a sense of honor, so I don't care for TNG Romulans suddenly being backstabbing weasles.
And while I'm complaining, the Romulans in TOS had a sense of honor, so I don't care for TNG Romulans suddenly being backstabbing weasles.
Well, some of the Romulans in TOS had a sense of honor. The "Balance of Terror" Commander and Centurion were honorable, but they were the old guard lamenting the lack of honor possessed by the Praetor and the new generation. From the start, there was an implication that honor was on the way out. This is a theme that was indepenently picked up on by several novelists over the years, notably Diane Duane in her Rihannsu series. So it's actually perfectly consistent for the TNG-era Romulans to be less concerned with honor.
^ maybe disregarding honor causes ridges to form!
How so? They were war-weary and thus not eager to start another fight - but that's not honor, that's cowardice. When ordered, they conducted a sneak attack mission anyway, doing their worst to defeat their enemy with the dirtiest tricks imaginable. But doing as told isn't exactly honor, either, or concentration camp guards would be heroes. In the end, the Commander opted for suicide - which admittedly might be considered honorable (since it certainly can't be given any other positive quality) but could equally well be considered further cowardice.
Of course, it's just a matter of perspective - thieves' honor and all that. But the Commander and the Centurion didn't meet particularly high human standards, which supposedly is the argument here.
Timo Saloniemi
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