Star Trek Continues: Episode 3...

[Warped9]

STC does seem to have one thing in common with TOS, at least to a degree: a limited window to actually film the episode or the live-action sequences of it. They have to schedule so that everyone needed for the shoot can be there at the same time. For TOS the window was dictated by a different scheduling constraint: they only had about six days to shoot each episode because they had to shoot so many episodes within so many months.

TOS in some respects might have had more of some resources available to them, but then their budget was dictated by forces outside their control. If they went over budget on one episode then the ideal was to try to save on another. Of course that didn't always work out. STC (and any fan production) is also dictated by budget and one much more constrained than TOS. The difference is that STC is doing it totally non-profit and no one is getting paid so every penny can go into production. Another distinction is that STC has resources simply nonexistent when TOS was being made: computer f/x. They are no longer constrained by having to build actual physical models (or even certain sets) and laborious fashioning of photographic special effects. A prime example are the hangar deck shots we've seen in "Lolani" and "Fairest Of Them All." Such shots could have been done during TOS, but it would have been time-consuming and expensive where the budget constraints simply didn't allow for it.

Individual stories could be in development for long periods of time during TOS and so that mightn't be so different for STC, but a big difference is that TOS had several stories in development at any given time while STC can focus on developing one or two at a time. This also applies to post production.

So the challenges STC faces are not totally dissimilar from those faced by TOS.

 

[I am not Spock]

It's my favourite Mirror episode alongside Mirror, Mirror, and In A Mirror , Darkly. Absolutely fantastic job! STC rocks!

 

[Bixby]

STC does seem to have one thing in common with TOS, at least to a degree: a limited window to actually film the episode or the live-action sequences of it. They have to schedule so that everyone needed for the shoot can be there at the same time.

Well, don't all fan productions strive for quick live-action shoots? Phase 2 just wrapped this year's shoot and it took them 2 weeks as usual. I think Exeter's first film (Savage Empire showed them the folly of splitting your shoots over various months, witness Cutty ever-changing haircuts).

Don't really understand your point here, all productions try to get their footage done as quickly as possible, so as to avoid as many continuity nightmares as possible.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I tend to see the ISS ENTERPRISE crew as I like to think Jerome Bixby did: a ship filled with Dexter Morgans and Hannibal Lecters, scaring the willies out of Kirk, Uhura, McCoy and Scott.

I personally think the crew's complement should have been reduced by at least a third before the mutiny resolved itself.

EDITED TO ADD: Basically the Mirror Universe is a parallel dimension filled with psychopaths...

But how realistic is that? Never mind the fact that the Empire, as "good" Kirk observed, is "illogical, because it cannot endure"... how could a Terran Empire filled with psychopaths develop warp drive, phasers and photon torpedoes without immolating itself in the process?

As fun as "Mirror, Mirror" was, I think the STC team nailed it with this episode--the mirror universe is populated with a lot of bad guys to be sure, but it also has its share of fundamentally decent (or at least, less evil) people who are basically keeping their heads down to survive.

Like you said, we'll agree to disagree. "Fairest of Them All" was a great romp, and I can't wait to see what comes next.

 

[Bixby]

But how realistic is that? Never mind the fact that the Empire, as "good" Kirk observed, is "illogical, because it cannot endure"... how could a Terran Empire filled with psychopaths develop warp drive, phasers and photon torpedoes without immolating itself in the process?

Isn't that what they did in pre-Nazi Germany, they used social engineering to mindfuck an entire generation of germans, advancing their economy and technology to unprecedented heights, all the while focusing all of their negative and murderous energies to bear on specific segments of the population (the gays, the jews, the gypsies) that were defenseless and couldn't fight back. They worked hard, either by political means or through more nefarious ways to create an army of state-approved psychopaths who for decades had all empathy for their victims wiped away. What was the result? 100 million people lost their lives...

Characters such as Dexter and Hannibal Lecter are psychopaths because though they can easily function amongst everyday society and even excel (Dexter is an outstanding pathologist and Lecter a brilliant psychiatrist), both lack any fundamental empathy towards other people. But they are not Jasons and Michael Myers and Leatherfaces, let's not go to that extreme.

So yes, I say it WOULD be possible in an imperial-controlled universe to have them send an army of psychopaths co-habitating inside a cramped ship and carrying out the orders of the Emperor, as long as they get to soothe their inner bloodlust on a hapless world or two once in a while...

 

[Warped9]

^^. You are grossly oversimplifying what happened. The vast majority of Germans, including the military, didn't subscribe to the Nazi mentality. Most people went along with what was happening out of fear.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

The vast majority of Germans, including the military, didn't subscribe to the Nazi mentality. Most people went along with what was happening out of fear.

That's kinda what I think we saw in "Fairest of Them All". But that's my interpretation and opinion, of course. YMMV.

 

[Bixby]

Well of course I am, history never IS that simple. But enough of it is true in this case.

 

[Warped9]

Well of course I am, history never IS that simple. But enough of it is true in this case.

No. The way you're saying it makes it sound like most of the country was enthusiastically following Hitler. That wasn't the case.

 

[Bixby]

they used social engineering to mindfuck an entire generation of germans,

Are you referring to this? This was the Nazi party's plan, in their quest for aryan glory. Whether or not this ''training'' took hold depended on each citizen.

http://www.ithaca.edu/history/journal/papers/fa03Nazification.htm

And when I say ''enough of it is true in this case.'', what I mean is, that they succeeded in creating enough ''psychopaths'' i.e.: citizens with zero empathy for the lives of Jews/gays/gypsies/non-aryans, that a program of this kind on steroids could create a movement such as the Empire from Mirror Mirror.

Anyway I've exhausted pretty much all I have to say about this STC episode. Most of you people love it, I find it just ok. Moving on...

 

[Duane]

^^. You are grossly oversimplifying what happened. The vast majority of Germans, including the military, didn't subscribe to the Nazi mentality. Most people went along with what was happening out of fear.

I question your unsupported statement. This isn't the place for this sort of discussion, but I can't leave this hanging. When Hitler gave his "expand or die" speech I didn't see many frightened people in the crowd.

The ability of charismatic people/politicians to influence a largely ignorant population is probably well documented, but I'm no expert.

 

[Duane]

On a lighter note, at least this discussion gives me that opportunity to share my first and only attempt at acting. I'm pretty sure I shared this here years ago. You will spot the TOS homage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYySaojO4gw

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I can't help but wonder what might have been if this Star Trek Continues episode had been a story of the time the mirror characters spent in "our" universe. Do we actually know if the four of them spent the entire time in the brig, rapping their cups on the bars? Spock put them in the brig for something, and that would seem to me to be a very big deal.

Not to mention "our" Spock knowing - and this always bothered me - just when to put the four in the transporter.

To me it all adds up to a potential story.

 

[Warped9]

Considering how Mirror Kirk seem to generally behave it probably didn't take Prime Spock long to figure something was really off the rails. He probably locked them up before they could do any real damage. Indeed the Mirror landing party could well have given themselves away right off by immediately railing about everything being different from what they expected aboard their Enterprise.

 

[doubleohfive]

I can't help but wonder what might have been if this Star Trek Continues episode had been a story of the time the mirror characters spent in "our" universe. Do we actually know if the four of them spent the entire time in the brig, rapping their cups on the bars? Spock put them in the brig for something, and that would seem to me to be a very big deal.

Not to mention "our" Spock knowing - and this always bothered me - just when to put the four in the transporter.

To me it all adds up to a potential story.

I agree - while certainly not necessary, there is enough wiggle room, so to speak, to craft such a story. Perhaps as a "long" vignette?

 

[Warped9]

Mirror Kirk: "I don't know why everyone is out of uniform and you look stupid without a beard, Spock. For now, though, the Halkans have refused to cooperate and so execute standing orders: destroy them by phaser barrage."

Prime Spock: "Fascinating. Of course that is quite impossible, Captain. Security, detain the landing party until we understand what has transpired."

Slam!

 

[doubleohfive]

Congratulations! You were able to make your (redundant) point in less than four paragraphs.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think that "Fairest" was technically well executed, and perhaps the best effort to date for recapturing the look and feel of TOS.

Where "Fairest" falls down is in the basic premise. I cannot imagine that many of the crew of the ISS Enterprise changing sides so rapidly. It's completely implausible.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

It's the mirror landing party in the transporter at just the right time that gives me pause to wonder. How was that achieved?

First of all, if mirror Kirk and mirror companions beamed aboard and behaved as Warped9 suggests, would they be thrown in the brig, or taken to sickbay for examinations? I can't imagine Spock immediately deducing that the landing party's unusual behavior is due to them being duplicates from another universe!

And how to handle something "medical" on the show with McCoy as one of the patients? Heck, you could bring in M'Benga, or the casually-referenced Dr. Sanchez.

Spock, also, had to have been able to know what the real Kirk was up to. If he knew when they were going to beam out, it's possible that 'our' Spock had used a variation of the tantalus field (or whatever it was called), which mirror Kirk had absconded for personal gain. That use of the same technology for 'good' and 'evil' purposes simultaneously could be interesting!

 

[Warped9]

^^ I was being a bit facetious, but the essential point is still viable. Spock himself later says that the Miiror landing party were unable to convincingly act as civilized people. This implies that the Mirror Kirk and company might have tried to fake it (as Prime a Kirk and his group had in the Mirror Universe) but soon gave themselves away. Earlier Spock remarks some sort of transposition had taken place and plays it extra safe by securing them all in the Brig. And Mirror Kirk's remarks in that scene seem to suggest that not much time has passed since they arrived in the Prime Universe.

But I agree it's unexplained how Spock knew when to throw them into the transporter. Or maybe he, too, figured out the temporary bridge between universes (caused by the ion storm) was rapidly closing and opted to get the Mirror counterparts to the transporter room at pretty much the last minute.