The Sound of Her Voice

[Grendelsbayne]

I was just rewatching this episode and a timeline question popped into my head:

DS9 season 6 is, iirc, 2374. Cpt. Cusak said she'd been out of the Federation for 8 years, so (as far as the Defiant crew knows) since 2366. They later find out there was a three year time shift in the transmission, so she actually left the federation in 2363.

Unless I'm mistaken, the treaty with the Cardassians was signed in or 'shortly before' 2367. So why is Cpt. Cusak surprised to find out the Federation is at war? Wasn't the Federation at war with the Cardassians when she left?

 

[varek]

I was just rewatching this episode and a timeline question popped into my head:

DS9 season 6 is, iirc, 2374. Cpt. Cusak said she'd been out of the Federation for 8 years, so (as far as the Defiant crew knows) since 2366. They later find out there was a three year time shift in the transmission, so she actually left the federation in 2363.

Unless I'm mistaken, the treaty with the Cardassians was signed in or 'shortly before' 2367. So why is Cpt. Cusak surprised to find out the Federation is at war? Wasn't the Federation at war with the Cardassians when she left?

Memory Alpha says the Federation-Cardassian war had begun in 2347 and continued, to some extent, until 2367. As you say, if she had left the Federation in 2363, then the treaty would not have been signed, yet.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War

Maybe she meant that she was surprised the two powers were still at war.

 

[T'Girl]

Wasn't the Federation at war with the Cardassians when she left?

From the way it's shown and described, the war between the Federation and the Cardassians was on again-off again. One year it's hot, the next it's cold.

War, cease fire, combat, peace treaty, more war.

 

[Tiberius]

Given that we never heard anything about the Cardassian War until several years into TNG, I think it was more of a border skirmish/dispute.

 

[T'Girl]

Picard and O'Brian both spoke of the wars history.

 

[Last Redshirt]

The way the Cardassian War was talked about, it seemed like by the time the peace treaty had been signed most of the big fighting, like the one that O'Brien had been a part of, had already ended and it was replaced with the Cardassians just being a nuisance along the border.

 

[Ro_Laren]

I was always confused when they talked about the Cardassian War. I wish they would have gone more into the background of the war.

 

[Dukhat]

Memory Alpha says the Federation-Cardassian war had begun in 2347 and continued, to some extent, until 2367.

The 2347 date is erroneous, based on incorrect information about when the Rutledge was at Setlik III. It was there in 2362, not 2347.

 

[Last Redshirt]

I was always confused when they talked about the Cardassian War. I wish they would have gone more into the background of the war.

Yeah, but, it was all contrary to the Roddenberry views and all. I honestly thought it was better as something mysterious, like a big white elephant in the room. Everyone knew about it, knew people in it, or were even in it themselves, but it's not something you talk about.

However, I would've liked more to be talked about it, though.

 

[Tiberius]

I always wondered why they bothered with the time travel stuff anyway. I know it was the original idea, and it got scaled back, but in the final version it's like they just added it to make it weird and science fictiony.

 

[Jono]

Given during Cusak's life and career the Federation would have been involved in conflicts with the Tholians, Talarians, Tzenkethi and the Cardassians, the idea of the Federation getting into another shooting match shouldn't be too surprising.

If the online script is correct given the context around what she said you could argue it isn't surprise at war, but really a comment on the scale of the conflict.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Given during Cusak's life and career the Federation would have been involved in conflicts with the Tholians, Talarians, Tzenkethi and the Cardassians, the idea of the Federation getting into another shooting match shouldn't be too surprising.

If the online script is correct given the context around what she said you could argue it isn't surprise at war, but really a comment on the scale of the conflict.

That would make more sense, but it really doesn't come across well in the episode...

 

[Jono]

^ Very true. We could just put her confusion down to CO2 poisoning causing her to be a bit confused.

She was also knocked unconscious when her vessels was destroyed. She might be still suffering from that with say, a concussion. A head knock and high levels of CO2 wouldn't be a great combination.

 

[Ithekro]

But if one sees things how they were in 2364, the first season of TNG, you'd assume there is no wars for the Federation and everything is just fine. The Klingons are allied with the Federation (or was that part of), the Romulans are away. There are those Ferengi rumored to be pretty bad, though, so we should be on the watch for them. Just the high and morally superior Federation here and there passing judgement on other races.

 

[Timo]

I was always confused when they talked about the Cardassian War. I wish they would have gone more into the background of the war.

They actually use plural in a couple of places. I think it's there in "The Wounded" already, but definitely there in "Nor the Battle to the Strong". It seems quite possible there were several Cardassian Wars, sometimes lumped together in 24th century history writing, sometimes not...

The 2347 date is erroneous, based on incorrect information about when the Rutledge was at Setlik III. It was there in 2362, not 2347.

She apparently was there at both times. In 2347, there was a minor incident involving Cardassian militia raiding a Federation colony, and O'Brien got his first taste for transporter repair there, as explicated in "Paradise". Since he first operated transporters 22 years prior to "Realm of Fear", the date of that incident is set in stone. But "Tribunal" sets in stone the 2362 date - while "Empok Nor" establishes a Setlik III event fundamentally different from what is described as having happened in 2347. No "militia" there, no minor raiding, no humiliating last-second escape for a Starfleet away team featuring a rookie O'Brien who faints at the thought of killing somebody. Instead, seasoned warrior O'Brien takes on entire regiments of Cardassian regulars, this time triumphantly.

It's not unlikely at all that Cardassians would attack Setlik III more than once if they found it worth the while to attack it at all. It's not unlikely for O'Brien to deal with such attacks multiple times, either, as long as we accept him sticking with Captain Maxwell who had very personal ties to that location, and apparently also some pull within Starfleet (inherent, if circularly, in his ability to retain a specific starship and crew for decades, in the notorious Kirk style).

As for "The Sound of Her Voice", Cusack doesn't necessarily appear surprised at the UFP being at war. She merely says "I can't believe we are at war" - that's denial, not surprise.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Destructor]

I actually kind of like to think that the Federation is so big that they are always 'at war' on one front or another, it's just that they're so big that most people on one side of the quadrant don't notice what's happening on the other. I mean, we're just on one planet and there are always at least two wars going on, somewhere, but we don't always know about it. Now imagine 150 planets, spread out across massive distances, surrounded by often hostile and sometimes mysterious aliens competing for limited planetary resources.

I suspect the Cardassian/Federation war (pre-Dominion, of course) was basically a minor dispute over planetary/system borders that ended in an uneasy detente- not the sort of existential threat (or 'World War') that the Dominion threat posed- one that the entire Federation was swept up in.

Of course, even at the height of the Dominion war the Enterprise still had time to jaunt around the Briar Patch.

 

[Ithekro]

Insurrection does have the strangeness of having what we suppose is the Flagship of the Federation, during the height of the Dominion War, going around on diplomatic missions, and sending its personnel on pre-contact observation missions. Wouldn't one assume that such a powerful starship would be on the frontlines, or at least in a position to take advantage of breakthroughs in the Dominion lines? Or is this the lull after the Siege of AR-588 but before the Breen enter the conflict.

 

[Reeborg]

What I always found strange in the episode: Why do you make a person that is suffocating from limited oxygen supply talk for hours and hours, especially when it seems to be essential for survival to economize it to the maximum (a question of minutes). Not even to speak that the person is highly uncomfortable while speaking. Shouldn't a good doctor have said: "Shut the hell up"????

 

[USS KG5]

Given that we never heard anything about the Cardassian War until several years into TNG, I think it was more of a border skirmish/dispute.

Kind of more of an Afghanistan job, a long term military commitment to contain the Cardassians, but not anything that really affected most of Starfleet or the Federation as a whole.

Then along come the Dominion and you have core worlds falling, whole fleets destroyed, tens of thousands of casualties - something more like WW2.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I actually kind of like to think that the Federation is so big that they are always 'at war' on one front or another, it's just that they're so big that most people on one side of the quadrant don't notice what's happening on the other. I mean, we're just on one planet and there are always at least two wars going on, somewhere, but we don't always know about it. Now imagine 150 planets, spread out across massive distances, surrounded by often hostile and sometimes mysterious aliens competing for limited planetary resources.

I suspect the Cardassian/Federation war (pre-Dominion, of course) was basically a minor dispute over planetary/system borders that ended in an uneasy detente- not the sort of existential threat (or 'World War') that the Dominion threat posed- one that the entire Federation was swept up in.

Of course, even at the height of the Dominion war the Enterprise still had time to jaunt around the Briar Patch.

The problem with that is that no matter which series we're looking at, EVERYONE seems to no who the Maquis are without having to be told. If Cardassia was just 'some border skirmish', then the Maquis should be just some random revolutionaries.

Also - it's easy for us not to notice what's going on on the other side of the world because we have almost no personal connection to the other side of the world. Our world is divided by language, religion, class, etc, not to mention just plain habit. The Federation requires worlds to have already left that stage behind before even being allowed to join, and has all the technology available to make overcoming those barriers a simple matter even between different worlds.

What I always found strange in the episode: Why do you make a person that is suffocating from limited oxygen supply talk for hours and hours, especially when it seems to be essential for survival to economize it to the maximum (a question of minutes). Not even to speak that the person is highly uncomfortable while speaking. Shouldn't a good doctor have said: "Shut the hell up"????

She wasn't suffering from 'limited' oxygen supply, iirc. She was suffering from no oxygen supply, thereby forcing her to breathe an atmosphere that was actually toxic. The thing they were rationing wasn't oxygen, but a sort of medication that would allow her to breathe the toxic atmosphere without dying instantly.