The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Beyerstein, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, to discuss your latter point (and not just because I'm one of those posters you're talking about!), I bring up the Stargazer as an example. I *think* within the show the Constellation is regarded as a non-too-elegant design, and even Picard confesses that the class and the Stargazer itself are not sleek, efficient, even favorable designs anyway. But Picard told Scotty that sometimes, if he could, he'd trade the E-D for the Stargazer because of that sentimental value. There's no accounting for taste, but it can be separate from personal preference of ship. Indeed, Scotty clearly much preferred the TOS bridge rather than its arguably more streamlined, uniformed, and more advanced movie incarnations. The Stargazer and the TOS Enterprise were the ships where Picard and Scotty cut their teeth with, much in the same way that a viewer connects with a particular ship if they watch for a long period of time.
     
  2. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    Are we talking about the same movie? :)

    After losing his son and his ship, Kirk tried to convince Kruge that they should help each other, rather than die. Even after Kruge beat the living crap out of him, Kirk still offers him his hand to save him. Only after Kruge grabs his ankle to pull him over the cliff with him does Kirk finally kick him to his death.

    Yes, Kirk loved the Enterprise but I can't believe he wouldn't have second guessed murdering the Klingon crew. At least I always imagined Kirk to be a bigger person than that.
     
  3. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Are we sure Kirk (under the letter of Klingon Law) isn't completely within his rights to kill everyone and everything Kruge holds dear for murdering his only male heir (David)?
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Well, the Klingons had invaded Federation space, murdered the crew of a Federation science vessel, murdered Kirk's son, attempted to take the Enterprise and wanted the Genesis Device for use as a weapon of mass destruction. I don't think Kirk (or anyone) would have an issue defending Federation lives and property. I don't see a reason that he would second guess his actions.

    Plus, the Enterprise was a character in its own right and very important to Kirk. Something we see from the very beginning of TOS.
     
  5. KaineMorrison

    KaineMorrison Lieutenant Commander

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    I love the "E!"
     
  6. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well his was in command of USS Stargazer for 22 years and likely on that ship even longer.
     
  7. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Saying the design isn't 'sleek' isn't necessarily a value judgement - it's just a description. It's just as easy to value 'non-sleekness' as it is to value 'sleekness'. Saying it's inefficient is an in-universe judgement of its effectiveness at doing what it was designed for - something a man who captained it for decades would have to be honest about. Neither is really very connected to the question of what type of design someone prefers aesthetically. (I really have no idea what is mean by a 'favorable' design)

    Ultimately, though, my point wasn't about people having personal preferences for one ship over another. Certainly, that's true, but I was talking about the fact that people have personal preferences for certain styles of design over others. That's all these posts about 'character' and 'soul' are - one person just doesn't like a particular type of design and so, even on first glance before the show has had any chance to build up the ship as a character, feels like that design has no 'soul' or 'character'. If the show is particularly effective at making people feel for the crew and making the crew feel for the ship, then many people eventually get over it. If not, you're left with two groups divided solely over the fact that they just like different styles.
     
  8. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would have been miles above what we got.

    Yup, I never considered the Refit Connie to be a different ship. It was the Enterprise of the series, but better.

    I'm not sure if you mean the "AGT 3-Nacelled Refit" in which case I agree :D

    E is a sports car in the sense that a Mazda Miata is a sports car. Both look "sporty" but still hideous.

    I started hating the original TOS Enterprise. I thought it looked so rinky dink.

    But I loved the refit in the movies! And this made the original grow on me.

    I loved the D the moment I saw'er, it was love at first sight.

    I woudn't have played too much with the design. Making the nacelles a little more pointed and the saucer like 10% smaller would have done wonders for the design.

    Same here. I didn't immediately hate the Abramsprise. I thought it did a great job of respecting the original design, while modernizing what didn't work about the original, aesthetics wise.

    It's lightyears ahead of the E. Not even a contest.

    The D was the fat chick and the E the hot chick? :guffaw:

    More like the D was like one of those wrestlers who weren't tremendously ripped, but they were big and you'd best stay out of their way.

    Enterprise E is like Japan designed it to look like a metal praying mantis. That's what it looks like to me.

    I have no idea of whatever fight you guys are having over this. I agree that Probert design looks fucking kick ass!

    The "canon" Rick Sternback design looks like it was built out of legos.

    Sorry Rick, Probert beat you on this one.

    Or how about, you know, doing a movie story that rivaled one of those really really good dozen episodes in the series?

    I feel what TNG lacked was due to it being a series pre-CGI, and therefore very expensive to do quality FX work for it.

    This is what I feel held TNG back (DS9 and VOY got to flex that CGI muscle once it became available)

    TNG could have reaped the same benefits in their movies.

    For the record, that Probert Enterprise C is seriously cool. A true sister to the D.

    It looks like it's built out of legos, or k'nex.


    People are fine for liking what they like. I personally think it's absolutely retarded to destroy the design of a ship than is an integral part of a series, and replace it with this unknown bastard thing.

    It might have been easier to swallow if the new design was good.

    If some people liked the E more than the D, I guess they benefited then.
     
  9. Tiberius Jim

    Tiberius Jim Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the topic of E-E vs. E-D, I did some photomanips a few years back replacing the E with the D in First Contact. I for one prefer the D.

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  10. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Y'know, there is something viscerally right about seeing the D going up against the Borg again. Seems like it would be good for fleet morale...it's the ship that beat them before!

    I always thought the Defiant looked way too small-scale in that shot, though....
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    It's about whether dialogue in "Redemption II" constitutes a premise change that relocated events in "Yesterday's Enterprise" from just an alternate timeline of our universe into a parallel universe.
    As a consequence that would make the Sternbach-C indigenous to the parallel universe (and its past), while the Probert-C would remain the "canon" Enterprise-C of our universe (as suggested by the conference lounge wall display of the D)

    @ Flux Capacitor

    These pictures are :drool:

    I think they show what most of us really missed: A good show of the D's capacities when fully engaged in a battle. The E stole that "thunder", maybe another reason why it's not so popular.

    Bob
     
  12. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    The had the chance to do that in Generations, and they made the D look like a slow lumbering beast with minimal weapons, getting mugged off by an old Bird of Prey.
     
  13. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    Huh? Aren't they releasing TV Trek blu-ray sets as fast as they can be produced?
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ... AGREED!

    And I refuse to believe that no one involved in the process, or who otherwise had input, did not notice or mention this. Which begs the question of "why." I can only suspect that Abrams deliberately chose it this way to "break the rules," as it were, and emphasize the nacells even more ... aesthetics be damned! But you are absolutely right and your illustrations demonstrate this fact very well.
     
  15. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All that would have been better, no question.
     
  16. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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  17. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The CGI > Model comparison is another fair discussion. Two out of the Enterprise-E's three appearances were all done using CGI (and in the case of Insurrection, the first movie to make the switch wholesale, the technology was still in somewhat of an infant form compared to today). Only First Contact presented us with an actual model and used traditional motion control photography, and like I said even as a 'hater' on the 1701-E design I grudingly accept that within the context of First Contact alone I had less of an issue with it.

    But looking at the design clinically, rather than emotionally, I still can't love it. :p As Timby correctly pointed out earlier in this thread, there's a propensity towards too many angles in the design, "too much going on" as they say, even in the design as it was seen in First Contact. Things like those notches/alcoves/whatever in the sides of the saucer nacelle don't strike me as the design being 'clever', more an example of where it looks far too over-designed.



    In my opinion. :D ;)
     
  18. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    SACRIFICE OF ANGELS I think was were we saw the Galaxy-class finally get a workout when several engage the Cardassians with multiple phaser arrays at once.
     
  19. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I did enjoy that bit a lot. Something that TNG should have been the one to do.

    We never saw the Enterprise D flex any serious muscle at all.

    Flux Capacitor's pics are incredibly amazing! I love the flyby right over the Defiant.

    Even though I missed the D in the movies, it's not the main reason I hate the E.

    I hate the E because it's fugly. The nacelles look like something out of Voltron.
     
  20. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Very much so. The D always convinced me that it was real, perhaps more by inference than by anything we 'actually' saw on-screen during the TNG era, but the E by contrast always looked to me like something designed to sell toys. There's something very artificial about the design.