What was wrong with the TMP uniforms?

[LMFAOschwarz]

Shouldn't Decker be a gold shirt? He's the XO subbing for the science officer.

First, I thought of the line "I guess you'll have to double as science officer."

THEN, I remembered he lost that title when Spock came on board..!

Easy fix..and good catch! I'll post the revision!

And here's Decker, in his proper color...

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I've also neglected to praise your work. I know what you mean about re-tinting those darned red shirts...those things are a pain, and I always save them for last!

But it's interesting to note how well the original color scheme would have translated to film, but the film colors on the original series, um...less successful!

 

[Maurice]

One way to re-tint a shirt is to first turn the saturation to zero to reduce it to greyscale and then add a color tint layer over it.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

One way to re-tint a shirt is to first turn the saturation to zero to reduce it to greyscale and then add a color tint layer over it.

I didn't do it that way on this one, Maurice, but I'll give that a shot next time: the problem for me is mostly how changing the colors bug my vision out. The red seems to be the worst of all to me, and like I mentioned earlier, if I keep at it for too long, nothing seems to look right anymore until I walk away from it and come back with fresh, "corrected" vision.

(Also, you might relate to this, Maurice: ever edit audio, and when the sound sample goes into its repeating loop, and you adjust the qualities, the sound can make you physically sick? )

 

[JJohnson]

My issue with the TMP Uniforms is that there were so many variations, that I couldn't tell when which uniform was worn, in which situation. Why the gray two piece, then one piece, then short sleeve, then beige? What's the system? I know the Starfleet emblem holds the department color in the circle, but other than that, I cannot find any rhyme or reason behind all the variations and which uniform is used when.

The good part of the uniforms is the rank stripes on the cuffs meant it felt like a progression from TOS, along with the use of the Enterprise arrowhead emblem.


In contrast, the Wrath of Khan uniforms had very clearly marked department colors and rank pins, and the jacket was used always, then the landing party field jacket, and you could choose to wear the under-vest if you chose, or the bomber jacket for captains or above. It felt simpler and more consistent.

If anyone knows the system behind the seeming dozens of variations in TMP, I would definitely enjoy hearing it.

 

[J.T.B.]

My issue with the TMP Uniforms is that there were so many variations, that I couldn't tell when which uniform was worn, in which situation. Why the gray two piece, then one piece, then short sleeve, then beige? What's the system? I know the Starfleet emblem holds the department color in the circle, but other than that, I cannot find any rhyme or reason behind all the variations and which uniform is used when.

The basic idea was that two-piece with sleeve rank was for normal duty, one-piece with shoulder rank was working dress. The two-tone with sleeve and shoulder rank that Kirk wore at the beginning was a dress uniform, the metal pin badge was for ground/"shore" duty while the embroidered patch was for shipboard. The different colors are hard to figure out; blue-gray is often said to be for senior officers (CDR and up?) but there are exceptions. White seems to be for medical but also some technical people. Beige and brown, who knows?

There were a lot of variations, like the short-sleeved shirts and the "blazer" over black shirt, but that's not necessarily unrealistic. Especially when you consider specialized/protective clothing, and the fact that Starfleet has lost some of the rigidness and formality we associate with military organizations today. Allowing personnel some leeway in their clothing doesn't seem unreasonable in the Federation society as presented at the time. It could be a situation where there is a "catalog" of approved clothing individuals can chose from, but absolute uniformity is only required for formal occasions.

And anyway, everyone on a vessel dressing the same isn't a high priority in our day, either:

In contrast, the Wrath of Khan uniforms had very clearly marked department colors and rank pins, and the jacket was used always, then the landing party field jacket, and you could choose to wear the under-vest if you chose, or the bomber jacket for captains or above. It felt simpler and more consistent.

I don't like a lot of things about it, but my main complaints are the lack of connection back to the TOS uniforms, and the odd and seemingly sudden decision to give enlisted personnel a completely different uniform. The real reason was to use dyed TMP jumpsuits, but it's hard to come up with a reasonable in-universe explanation.

 

[Ralphis]

Looking at these some more, I realized there's an easy solution:



I think it works. Familiar and functional. I've heard that director Robert Wise wanted costumes that wouldn't distract from the actor's faces. Well, wouldn't dark pants do the job even better?

(Oops...only now have I noticed that I completely missed Decker in the background! )

I like these!

 

[Pauln6]

I think sticking with one style of TMP uniform for duty, and one for dress would have been better and then all other variants could have been off-duty wear. Different colour tunics for different duties within a department would have been fine (e.g. operations could be beige for piloting, grey for navigation, and red for comms etc).

 

[Ithekro]

Was there even a consensus on what all the various minor color differences were for in that movie? I know the colors in the insignia were for different departments, but what of the actual uniform colors?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Spikes page breaks it down as

Command officers-Blue
Bridge officers-Beige
Non-bridge personnel-Brown
Technicians-White
Planetary personnel-Gray

 

[J.T.B.]

I think sticking with one style of TMP uniform for duty, and one for dress would have been better and then all other variants could have been off-duty wear.

It's a good point, people live on the ship as well as work there so a wider variety for off-duty is understandable. Chief Di Falco, for instance, is wearing a uniform with no rank insignia, which makes sense if it was an off-duty uniform and she was off watch and called to the bridge in a hurry.

I have to correct my own earlier post as I actually looked in a book instead of relying on memory. According to TMoSTTMP, the two-pieces with sleeve rank was "Class A," a little more formal duty uniform presumably worn "in port," and the two-piece with shoulder rank was "Class B," the normal dress for duty underway and available in long- and short-sleeve versions. The one-piece jumpsuit with shoulder rank and cargo pockets was working dress.

Spikes page breaks it down as

Command officers-Blue
Bridge officers-Beige
Non-bridge personnel-Brown
Technicians-White
Planetary personnel-Gray

That's pretty much the "official" breakdown, I think, but in-universe there are so many exceptions to it that it must either be incorrect or somewhat meaningless.

 

[dswynne1]

I think sticking with one style of TMP uniform for duty, and one for dress would have been better and then all other variants could have been off-duty wear.

It's a good point, people live on the ship as well as work there so a wider variety for off-duty is understandable. Chief Di Falco, for instance, is wearing a uniform with no rank insignia, which makes sense if it was an off-duty uniform and she was off watch and called to the bridge in a hurry.

I have to correct my own earlier post as I actually looked in a book instead of relying on memory. According to TMoSTTMP, the two-pieces with sleeve rank was "Class A," a little more formal duty uniform presumably worn "in port," and the two-piece with shoulder rank was "Class B," the normal dress for duty underway and available in long- and short-sleeve versions. The one-piece jumpsuit with shoulder rank and cargo pockets was working dress.

Spikes page breaks it down as

Command officers-Blue
Bridge officers-Beige
Non-bridge personnel-Brown
Technicians-White
Planetary personnel-Gray

That's pretty much the "official" breakdown, I think, but in-universe there are so many exceptions to it that it must either be incorrect or somewhat meaningless.

I think I would have change the beige or brown (khaki?) to a dull red. As much as I like the style of the uniforms, the colors need a bit more contrast.

 

[Ithekro]

Seems a bit odd to have colors for department colors and then also have colors for if you are suppose to be on the bridge or not, suppose to be on a ship or not, and that kind of thing.

I know the Navy has colors on Carriers for different groups so they can see who is suppose to be where, but that is mostly because you can't hear much on deck with all the jets and they use handsignals. So it is best to know who to look at to get your signals.

On a mostly quiet Starships, you don't need that kind of color breakdown.
Department colors would seem to be enough inplace of arm insignia. The navy would typiclly have one uniform color depending on where they were (tropics, colder waters, over-seas, home port). But Starfleet? Prior to TMP, they had three colors of uniform for departments (not entirely broken down to groups as they is overlap), and a few alternative styles. Then in TMP they have four shipboard colors, one planetary color (weird idea), and multiple redendant styles of uniform, and then department colors that can be seen in small areas of the uniform.

Following that, the fleet using basically two uniforms types (with variations), and colored undershirts and tabs for departments. A much more uniform fleet look that more or less holds for 70 or 80 years. Then they go back to the three department color look of the 2260s, with modification. The color types hold for at least 50 years with variations on style of uniform, with grey added in wartime to make it harder for snipers and the like to pick of the commanders or engineers.

 

[Warped9]

 

[TheAdmiralty]

They're beige pajamas. Not a good idea. Conversely, I love the later TOS movie uniforms and think they're the best of the whole franchise. They should've just stuck with them in the TNG era.

 

[Warped9]

Yeesh! I hated those stupid things from TWOK to TUC.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm not really a fan of TMP uniforms with black trousers or with TOS shirt colors. I think the less they were like TOS uniforms the better.

 

[Mudd]

Boring people dislike color. The kind who buy white, tan, brown, gray cars.

IOW, most people.

If one finds most people boring, the problem is not with them.

 

[Melakon]

When I moved to Arizona 22 years ago, there were so many white cars and trucks, it reminded me of a company's fleet yard.

 

[dub]

Is this called reverse carism?