Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction?

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

One more time, with feeling: BOTH UNIVERSES ARE CORRECT! Almost everyone from Orci and Kurtzman to a lot of us posting here have been trying to explain that.

Kirk didn't come across an Earth destroyed by the probe, then go back in time and change everything. He found whales in the past, came back to his correct time and place with them, and stopped the probe before it could destroy the Earth.

So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?

 

[BillJ]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?

A day or two later? No. Twenty-five years after the fact? Yes.

The way I read this thread is that these Vulcans want to go back and reset everything from the day of Nero arrived in 2233. They would be wiping people who never existed in the other timeline out or had radically different lives.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?

A day or two later? No. Twenty-five years after the fact? Yes.

The way I read this thread is that these Vulcans want to go back and reset everything from the day of Nero arrived in 2233. They would be wiping people who never existed in the other timeline out or had radically different lives.

teacake only suggested that these Vulcans should go back to a time when Vulcan was still around, not stop Nero's time traveling shenanigans. If this were all about trying to prevent Nero from going back to the past, then I can see why many nuTrek fans are offended at the idea of trying to eliminate the universe they came to love in the two films.

I know what I would do: Go up to the Klingons and tell them "Hey, that Romulan p'takh Nero said your momma has no honor", then he's off to execution.

 

[Shat Happens]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?

A day or two later? No. Twenty-five years after the fact? Yes.

The way I read this thread is that these Vulcans want to go back and reset everything from the day of Nero arrived in 2233. They would be wiping people who never existed in the other timeline out or had radically different lives.

teacake only suggested that these Vulcans should go back to a time when Vulcan was still around, not stop Nero's time traveling shenanigans. If this were all about trying to prevent Nero from going back to the past, then I can see why many nuTrek fans are offended at the idea of trying to eliminate the universe they came to love in the two films.

I know what I would do: Go up to the Klingons and tell them "Hey, that Romulan p'takh Nero said your momma has no honor", then he's off to execution.

^^^that'd be the easiest and cleanest way to solve the problem

 

[austen_pierce]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Wouldn't this just split the timeline again? Adding a third thread, in which NuTrek itself diverges into Vulcan destroyed/saved versions?

IMO delivering that hammer blow to the Vulcan race showed astute artistic vision. Being 'Vulcan' heretofore meant what? Logic? Mystic? Repression? Fanatic? Just plain snotty? CNTL-ALT-DEL = welcome.

So some Vulcans go back and save Vulcan. Okay. Have fun. I'm sure we'll stay focused on NuTrek as seen on and after STID.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?

He didn't change the past, only the future. He brought live whales to the present, which is no different than a historian following the protocols bringing information. Any changes they inflicted on the past timeline were unintentional, they didn't go back to change the past.

How about Phlox killing the temporal parasites in Twilight to save the Earth? That's ambiguous, but one could say it is similar... If the people on New Vulcan feel like the humans on Ceti Alpha V, I could see some of them doing something. Too bad Nero's dead, so they can't try putting temporal parasites in his head. A poetic solution, given how he likes to put parasites into people's heads... I don't think he'd have destroyed Vulcan if every morning his XO had to retell him how they ended up on a quest to destroy Vulcan.

(Too bad the colony was set by Spock Prime, which rules out it being on Ceti Alpha V as well...)

 

[DonIago]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Welll, they did take Gillian out of the past and introduced the formula for transparent aluminum. Assuming TVH wasn't a predestination paradox I'd say Our Heroes got lucky.

Though, being a multiverse fan, I'd also say they switched timelines.

 

[BigJake]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

IMO delivering that hammer blow to the Vulcan race showed astute artistic vision. Being 'Vulcan' heretofore meant what? Logic? Mystic? Repression? Fanatic? Just plain snotty? CNTL-ALT-DEL = welcome.

Uh... this isn't making sense?

 

[DonIago]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I think Austen's argument was that making Vulcans an endangered species made them more interesting, IHO, than they'd been to that point.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.

 

[DonIago]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I imagine the solution involves contacting PrimeSpock while he's still in the Prime timeline to prevent Nero from jumping in time to begin with.

Of course that creates a paradox.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.

Everybody's looking at this all wrong. You don't take on Nero. You don't try to save Vulcan in 2258. By accident or by design, the Enterprise & crew find themselves back in 2233 and have an opportunity to save the U.S.S. Kelvin. How? They seal the original "lightning storm in space" exit point BEFORE the Narada came through in the first place.

Spock would ironically be the one who'd debate with Kirk about not doing this... even though he'd ultimately have as much - if not more to gain.

In leading up to that, you just continue to portray the universe Nero created descending into chaos and destruction. Then have fate hand the Captain more than self-interest as a motive. Somebody aboard the U.S.S. Kelvin becomes as important as Edith Keeler... but instead of a necessary destined death, the more straight-forward absence of a figure who's continued existence would've been a positive influence on history.

Edited to add: Narada is lost, never to be seen or heard from again. While Nimoy Spock still arrives in 2258 to settle down in his own past. Hiding himself away on Vulcan and keeping out of history's way... aside from a chance meeting with Sarek. Meanwhile elsewhere we see the Enterprise in orbit and aboard is Quinto Spock serving under Greenwood's Pike. Coming from Earth to rendezvous is the U.S.S. Farragut and there among her crew we find Kirk, Bones and Scotty. Recent graduates Sulu, Uhura and Chekov are transferred over from the Farragut. Before heading off, Kirk catches his first sight of the Enterprise... Bones says something to snap him out of an eerie feeling.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.

Everybody's looking at this all wrong. You don't take on Nero. You don't try to save Vulcan in 2258. By accident or by design, the Enterprise & crew find themselves back in 2233 and have an opportunity to save the U.S.S. Kelvin. How? They seal the original "lightning storm in space" exit point BEFORE the Narada came through in the first place.

And they would do this how exactly, last time I checked the federation doesn't have time hole sealing tech and they have to do it in the very little time the thing existed before shooting Nero out.

In leading up to that, you just continue to portray the universe Nero created descending into chaos and destruction. Then have fate hand the Captain more than self-interest as a motive. Somebody aboard the U.S.S. Kelvin becomes as important as Edith Keeler... but instead of a necessary destined death, the more straight-forward absence of a figure who's continued existence would've been a positive influence on history.

So basically a bunch of fanwank bullshit to justify getting a bunch of meaningless sci-fi trivia reinstated becuase some fans have trouble letting go of minutia.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it? I think that would do the trick. Dangerous, but if they wanted to pull a DAYS OF FUTURE PAST then that would be their only option.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it?

No they used the explosion to push them out of blackhole, they didn't seal crap.

And it wouldn't work anyway becuase THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I do so love my fanwank bullshit. No better way to celebrate 50 years than a nice ole bit of fanwank bullshit.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it?

No they used the explosion to push them out of blackhole, they didn't seal crap.

And it wouldn't work anyway becuase THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.

Insurrection is the one where they use the warp core to seal a subspace tear.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

They just need cyan matter to invert it. Or something. See? Easy.

 

[Search4]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Assuming you can time travel back in this timeline... you just have Spock detonate the Red Matter right after exit. Vulcan survives.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.

...Shatner?