Can civilians work on a starship?

[Timo]

Some were in civilian clothing. One wore a uniform complete with a rank pip (the black or "hollow" one also found on Chief O'Brien's neck).

FWIW, it seems that out of all the personnel aboard the NX-01, the security goons with the plasma and later plasma/phase rifles were the most competent and successful. Phlox didn't appear to have staff; there were no scientists aboard worth mentioning; Trip's little people mainly fell off catwalks; but the security guys and gals hit their targets, didn't get knocked out in fisticuffs or surprised from behind, and generally achieved all that was achievable in a combat situation, neck to neck with Reed the hero character.

I guess that when Archer left Earth in a hurry in "Broken Bow", Security was the one department that both he and Starfleet insisted be fully represented and equipped; the rest could be picked up when Archer returned. Alas, it took two years for that to happen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Given the size of the crew (83) would it make sense to have more than one trained medical specialist on board?

Possibly one or two members of the security gang might be qualified as a paramedic, and Phlox could usually get some thick-fingered help from the general crew if he needed it.

 

[Timo]

Given the missions, it might have made sense to have plenty of surgeons.

Both of the actually planned sorties, the Klingon return mission in "Broken Bow" and the Xindi hunt in "The Expanse", could have been considered medical-heavy, even. The crew compositions were different, as the MACO troops displaced a corresponding number of Starfleet personnel, but both might also be argued to have been on the low side: "Broken Bow" because Archer left in a hurry, "The Expanse" because of the single rather monomaniacal mission. Certainly the ship ought to have had room for plenty more crew, judging by exterior size and interior sets both.

Apparently the civilian sawbones aboard was an especially competent individual; possibly good enough to allow the medical staff to be trimmed down. But I'd think Starfleet would err on the side of caution with its first-ever deep space explorer; if they had known Archer's multi-year mission of exploration would start with "Broken Bow" already, they might have insisted on several MDs rather than just this one Klingon medicine specialist.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[varek]

Given the size of the crew (83) would it make sense to have more than one trained medical specialist on board?

Possibly one or two members of the security gang might be qualified as a paramedic, and Phlox could usually get some thick-fingered help from the general crew if he needed it.

In the military, all personnel have to undergo basic medical first-aid training, so the good Doctor could probably have called on anyone in the crew to help, as needed--e.g., "apply pressure there."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Crewman Cutler, who appeared in three episodes of Enterprise and was mentioned in one, is a Science officer and medic. Memory Alpha has this list of unnamed Science Division personnel seen on the NX-01

 

[the praetor]

So, can civilians work on a starship? Why not? Picard let a 15 year old kid pilot his ship, so anything is possible.

Wesley Crusher at the helm of the Enterprise was probably the most conspicuous case of a civilian working on a starship.

It was probably not just the most conspicuous but it was probably the most infamous too. Think about it. It was outrageous: a kid at the helm of the great starship Enterprise. It was a silly plot point too.

It's one thing for a captain to let a kid mess around the controls of an obscure ship like, say, a freighter. But in this case, we're talking about the flagship of the fleet.

What were the Romulans, Cardassians, and all the other enemies of the Federation to think? Is Starfleet running an amateur operation or a babysitting service?

Besides that, the Enterprise is supposed to have over 1,000 people on board. Why is it that Picard has to rely on a kid, let alone a civilian, to man the helm? He can't find a trained qualified Starfleet helmsman from among those other 1,000 people on board?

 

[Kevman7987]

Every time someone gets off the comm with the E-D, they have a big laugh about the E-D needing a big student driver sticker over the saucer.

 

[talfe'anhar]

So the general consensus is that civilians can (and have) served on star ships. Thanks for all the interesting info. As for replicated food and being served by a yeoman, the reboot Enterprise seems a bit more advanced than that. Food synthesizers make sense, though. And I'm sure that if Kirk were in a situation where he needed to eat and couldn't get off the bridge, someone would fetch him a snack. My story hasn't been published and is on the back burner right now so I could always change things around.

Anyway, thanks again for the input!

 

[TheGoodNews]

Don't you mean that it's just how they choose to stay busy?

Nope, it's how they earned money, it makes the world go 'round, that clinking clanking sound.

Watch out, now! The collaborative commons and zero marginal cost society are coming. The world now turns on terabytes. Distributed, peer-to-peer. Now what does that remind me of...?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The original idea of TNG was to have a civilian community around the ship. Which made a little bit of sense if you're alone in deep space but absolutely zero sense if you're on the front line of every major conflict.

 

[Timo]

How so? Civilians have been at the absolute forefront of combat for as long as there have been such things. That aspect of the fighting life has only disappeared when clearly defined fronts have, and it hasn't made any difference for the civilians because at the same time the bloodiest action has moved to the deep homefront, thanks to air power.

Civilians make a good living out of attending to wars. Not only in economic terms, but emotionally and physically as well. It's great to feel alive, and you have better odds at being alive if you tag along with armed people who are on your side.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Interesting that civilians can work on Klingon ships as well. IIRC, that's how Martok got his career started. Also he had civilians working for him in that last episode with Kor...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

How so? Civilians have been at the absolute forefront of combat for as long as there have been such things. That aspect of the fighting life has only disappeared when clearly defined fronts have, and it hasn't made any difference for the civilians because at the same time the bloodiest action has moved to the deep homefront, thanks to air power.

Civilians make a good living out of attending to wars. Not only in economic terms, but emotionally and physically as well. It's great to feel alive, and you have better odds at being alive if you tag along with armed people who are on your side.

Timo Saloniemi

Completely untrained civilians, whose function on the ship is bartending, on navy ships being sent behind enemy lines? Young children?

 

[TheGoodNews]

In the TNG novel "Debtor's Planet", I think it was Picard who explained to Offenhouse that the idea of allowing civvies on board was to ensure that starship captains would behave more responsibly or take fewer risks than some of their 23rd century counterparts seemed inclined to do.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Interesting that civilians can work on Klingon ships as well. IIRC, that's how Martok got his career started. Also he had civilians working for him in that last episode with Kor...

I believe Martok started as an enlisted man.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Interesting that civilians can work on Klingon ships as well. IIRC, that's how Martok got his career started. Also he had civilians working for him in that last episode with Kor...

I believe Martok started as an enlisted man.

Martok was a civilian laborer on a General's flagship and got a battlefield commission.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Interesting that civilians can work on Klingon ships as well. IIRC, that's how Martok got his career started. Also he had civilians working for him in that last episode with Kor...

I believe Martok started as an enlisted man.

Martok was a civilian laborer on a General's flagship and got a battlefield commission.

You're right. Guess I need to watch DS9 again.

 

[T'Girl]

^ He was a cook?

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ He was a cook?

Busboy.