Star Trek Continues: Episode 3...

[Bixby]

There are memos where Roddenberry, Fontana and Justman remark on the familiarity of plot devices being reused more than once or twice. They preferred to think of better and other ways of doing things rather than reusing previous devices. So familiar gimmicks being reused can often be traced back to Gene Coon.

Well yeah, Coon as show runner and script editor went through the multitude of script outlines and chose those which will pass through to the next step and become actual scripts. I don't blame Gene Coon if, because of the hours burning the midnight oil, he hadn't spotted that two or more scripts had former girlfriends of one of the main cast boarding the ship (one of the plot devices mentioned above), or the obligatory visitor from Kirk's academy days (so many of these), etc.

It's not easy at all to find new and interesting ways to introduce dramatic elements, Coon probably vetoed a hell of a lot more than we know of. Roddenberry and DC Fontana had a fresh eye and thus had an easier time noting the repeating elements.

And yes, using Koloth instead of Kor was a better option in the long run.

 

[Warped9]

^^ You're forgetting that Coon actually rewrote scripts and therefore knew well plot devices were being reused even after Roddenberry, Fontana and Justman pointed such out. You can't just excuse it as error. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Maurice]

So, Coon was making the first fanfilms by making fan-service callbacks?

 

[Bixby]

^^ You're forgetting that Coon actually rewrote scripts and therefore knew well plot devices were being reused even after Roddenberry, Fontana and Justman pointed such out. You can't just excuse it as error. He knew what he was doing.

Not forgetting at all, but look: even if to resolve a story's third act you need a plot device used in a previous episode but in a different way, and it works, then USE IT!! if it makes for great tv, then that should be all that matters. Sure, Kirk talks Landru AND Nomad to death, but 50 years later it still makes for great viewing.

So yes in that effect, Gene Coon DID know what he was doing...

You'd be surprised how that's still a practice in modern dramatic series. DEXTER is a series I like a lot, but they often reused plot devices over its 6 or so years and I'm not overly bothered at all.

 

[Maurice]

Funny, but the Continues webpage totally copied our chronometer-countdown gimmick from the Exeter page. Imitation is the sincerest form of fanfilms.

 

[AustNerevar]

Funny, but the Continues webpage totally copied our chronometer-countdown gimmick from the Exeter page. Imitation is the sincerest form of fanfilms.

Eh, you guys are all essentially brothers anyway. Though it would have been polite to ask.

Isn't there a sort of group or meeting time in the works for all the fan film guys? Where you plan to share assets and ideas and stuff? If not, there should be. That would likely lead to faster productions. And you want to ride this gravy train as much as you can before CBS eventually calls the cops on the party.

It's not like the fan films are competing or anything.

 

[Bixby]

Isn't there a sort of group or meeting time in the works for all the fan film guys? Where you plan to share assets and ideas and stuff? If not, there should be. That would likely lead to faster productions.

You mean where all fan productions team up to produce one film all together? And who exactly would be in charge of this shindig? And by in charge, that means to actually do the bulk of the work involved

Not an easy thing to negociate...Remember the Who framed Roger Rabbit movie from back in the late 80s? You'd be astonished all the negotiations and hoop jumping involved when it came time to Warner Bros. and Disney's top characters (how much screen time each would get, if either from each side would prevail over the other or not)...

I'm not saying the different productions are THAT competitive, but it would take a heckuva lot of wranglin' to get everybody on board and happy...

 

[Warped9]

Funny, but the Continues webpage totally copied our chronometer-countdown gimmick from the Exeter page. Imitation is the sincerest form of fanfilms.

Well how can you really know that for an irrefutable fact? If one were inclined to use a TOS style chronometer gimmick it's not a stretch that more than one person could think of the counter from the helm/nav station.

 

[AustNerevar]

That's not really what I meant.

I thought I read a post somewhere that mentioned some of you had the idea to meet up once for some reason or another, but maybe I misunderstood.

 

[doubleohfive]

Isn't there a sort of group or meeting time in the works for all the fan film guys? Where you plan to share assets and ideas and stuff? If not, there should be. That would likely lead to faster productions.

You mean where all fan productions team up to produce one film all together? And who exactly would be in charge of this shindig? And by in charge, that means to actually do the bulk of the work involved

Not an easy thing to negociate...Remember the Who framed Roger Rabbit movie from back in the late 80s? You'd be astonished all the negotiations and hoop jumping involved when it came time to Warner Bros. and Disney's top characters (how much screen time each would get, if either from each side would prevail over the other or not)...

I'm not saying the different productions are THAT competitive, but it would take a heckuva lot of wranglin' to get everybody on board and happy...

I believe he is referring to the "Fan Film Maker's Association" that was started last year or the year before, wherein fan film producers could join forces, pool resources and networking to better produce high quality productions. The idea being "we're better together than we are alone."

It was a fantastic idea until it became evident that it was just going to be a "cool kids only" club, with members selectively allowed to join, despite the grand language about "uniting" all the fan film teams.

So far as I know it (the association) exists, but from what I hear there's drama and meltdowns nearly every other week on their Facebook page.

Pass.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Darren Hann of Star Trek: Reliant created the Star Trek Fan Film Production Group on Facebook wherein a number of fan film producers do discuss some things. It's a secret group, however, and you must be involved in the production of a fan film to belong. It is open to everyone; I think we've uninvited only two folks since I've been there.

In all honesty, too, Project: Potemkin has had two of its vignettes featuring cast and crew from Star Trek: Phase 2, Starship Farragut, Starship Valkyrie, Star Trek: Reliant as well as our own cast and crew and some general fans attending the convention. The first one "Closing Time" was shot at TrekTrax 2013 and shown the last day of the convention. It will be re-released in October this year with better sound and original music. The second one "Ladies Night Out" was shot in April at TrekTrax 2014. It will be shown at next year's convention.

It's all about working together, and having fun.

 

[Maurice]

In 10+ years of fanfilms no one (to my knowledge) did the chronometer countdown until I tossed the idea at Scott and he did it on the Exeter site. I'll leave it up to everyone to decide for themselves how likely it is SC's use of it was wholly coincidence. It doesn't bother me. It's just funny.

As to sharing stuff, that's exactly why I started and kept adding to the Fan Filmmakers' Primer and the Fan Film Writer's Primer topics here and encouraged others to chime in with their own experiences.

 

[northstar]

I believe he is referring to the "Fan Film Maker's Association" that was started last year or the year before, wherein fan film producers could join forces, pool resources and networking to better produce high quality productions. The idea being "we're better together than we are alone."

It was a fantastic idea until it became evident that it was just going to be a "cool kids only" club, with members selectively allowed to join, despite the grand language about "uniting" all the fan film teams.

So far as I know it (the association) exists, but from what I hear there's drama and meltdowns nearly every other week on their Facebook page.

Pass.

What kind of nonsense are you posting? There is absolutely no drama or meltdowns on that page. Obviously, as you do not seem to be part of it...

 

[USS Intrepid]

I believe he is referring to the "Fan Film Maker's Association" that was started last year or the year before, wherein fan film producers could join forces, pool resources and networking to better produce high quality productions. The idea being "we're better together than we are alone."

It was a fantastic idea until it became evident that it was just going to be a "cool kids only" club, with members selectively allowed to join, despite the grand language about "uniting" all the fan film teams.

So far as I know it (the association) exists, but from what I hear there's drama and meltdowns nearly every other week on their Facebook page.

Pass.

I'm on there, as well as another group, and while I would never claim it's all rainbows and unicorns, it's also not in any way like you suggest. Sorry 005, I've afraid you've been misinformed.

 

[Barbreader]

For no good reason, I am permitted on the Fan Filmmakers Association page as well, and there is no significant drama. As far as the 'cool kids' assertion, many of the folks there are what I call 'garage producers' (adult fans who are not entertainment pros) rather than the Professional producers of Star Trek Fan Films (who are, arguably, the cool kids). I would argue, therefore, that the 'cool kids' are present but do not dominate the page. The page has worked well enough that, together with certain threads here, I created a listing for fan filmmakers here: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/249.html which includes links to some of the resource that have been discussed there, here, and just around.

 

[doubleohfive]

I believe he is referring to the "Fan Film Maker's Association" that was started last year or the year before, wherein fan film producers could join forces, pool resources and networking to better produce high quality productions. The idea being "we're better together than we are alone."

It was a fantastic idea until it became evident that it was just going to be a "cool kids only" club, with members selectively allowed to join, despite the grand language about "uniting" all the fan film teams.

So far as I know it (the association) exists, but from what I hear there's drama and meltdowns nearly every other week on their Facebook page.

Pass.

I'm on there, as well as another group, and while I would never claim it's all rainbows and unicorns, it's also not in any way like you suggest. Sorry 005, I've afraid you've been misinformed.

That's good to hear. In concept, I like the idea and support it, even if I'm not welcome there. All I have to go on is hearsay, and given how much petty drama plays out here, it didn't seem too far a stretch (particularly coming from the reputable source I was getting my information from) to believe it to be the case. Glad to be proven wrong.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Well that's my impression. Others may feel differently.

 

[AustNerevar]

Isn't there a sort of group or meeting time in the works for all the fan film guys? Where you plan to share assets and ideas and stuff? If not, there should be. That would likely lead to faster productions.

You mean where all fan productions team up to produce one film all together? And who exactly would be in charge of this shindig? And by in charge, that means to actually do the bulk of the work involved

Not an easy thing to negociate...Remember the Who framed Roger Rabbit movie from back in the late 80s? You'd be astonished all the negotiations and hoop jumping involved when it came time to Warner Bros. and Disney's top characters (how much screen time each would get, if either from each side would prevail over the other or not)...

I'm not saying the different productions are THAT competitive, but it would take a heckuva lot of wranglin' to get everybody on board and happy...

I believe he is referring to the "Fan Film Maker's Association" that was started last year or the year before, wherein fan film producers could join forces, pool resources and networking to better produce high quality productions. The idea being "we're better together than we are alone."

It was a fantastic idea until it became evident that it was just going to be a "cool kids only" club, with members selectively allowed to join, despite the grand language about "uniting" all the fan film teams.

So far as I know it (the association) exists, but from what I hear there's drama and meltdowns nearly every other week on their Facebook page.

Pass.

Yep, this was exactly what I was talking about.

Is it really that bad?

 

[Barbreader]

Yep, this was exactly what I was talking about.

Is it really that bad?

If you read the above, doubleohfive is not in the group, and the people in the group do not agree with his/her/its characterization of it.

 

[doubleohfive]

Well it may not be a place full of infighting or petty drama, but there's no denying that it's very much a selectively closed group. Alec himself set it up that way when that first thread started two years ago. The cognitive dissonance between his grand language about uniting all the fan film production teams to work together (but only the ones he liked) was just too embarassing to process.

I'm happy to be proven wrong that the group is functioning but don't make it out to be some welcoming haven for all when it isn't.

If it works for you guys, great! Always happy to watch a new fan film and offer my thoughts. But I also trust the opinions of the people I know in that group and I've heard both sides of the story.