Can civilians work on a starship?
- Thread starter talfe'anhar
- Start date
Because it's entirely possible to be a civilian doctor, of course. But a chief engineer of a starship is, by definition, a Starfleet position, because it involves working to maintain the systems of a Starfleet vessel.
As for Neelix: There was going to be an ongoing plot thread in which he trains with Tuvok to be a security officer, and so Neelix would eventually wear a uniform. But this never got beyond "Year of Hell."
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I won't buy that. Torres was chosen because she knew her way around generic machinery - she had been tending to Maquis ships until then. That she now works on Starfleet engines is no different from Kes now working on Starfleet bodies: it's generic competence at work, in a specific setting. If an engineer needs a uniform to tamper with Starfleet machinery, a nurse obviously must need the same to tamper with Starfleet personnel!
Timo Saloniemi
No, because the CMO is involved in the chain of command on the ship - with the ability to relieve command officers from duty, if nothing else.
Possibly yes, but only after going through a short (6 week?) course and accepting a commission of some kind.
She did go to the Academy, didn't she? I don't think she graduated, but she did attend.
But would the CMO really need to be in Starfleet to declare a person unfit for command? As I understand it's through the doctor's medical examination plus the XO which make the case for removal of command. They both must agree with the XO making the final decision.
Except for Crusher and the Doctor, who sentient or not, is a part of the ship, actually take command. Crusher said she was outside the chain of command. Bashir and Bones seemed to show no interest in command and contented themselves to sickbay or, in Bashir's case, using his augmented brain to help out on the bridge.
You believe that Phlox lacked the authority to medically "decertify" Archer for command?
The authority in such cases would really be the XO's. He, she or it would just ask a medical expert to provide medical evidence for removal of command rights from the CO on medical basis - meaning that only the medical qualifications of the expert giving the opinion would be relevant. He or she or it could be wearing the uniform of Grand Admiral or then pajamas as regards his, her or its actual input in the matter.
Torres may have been "half Starfleet", but that clearly has no bearing on whether she got to wear a uniform: most Maquis explicity were not Starfleet by any fraction, but all got uniforms, and e.g. Seska got officer pips without any Starfleet background whatsoever.
Torres got to be CEO because she was a good engineer; Kes was probably a better nurse than Torres was an engineer, after a few weeks of studying at least.
Nevertheless, Starfleet seems to be only too happy to provide uniforms to anybody who bothers to ask, and then some - Khan and Captain Christopher got uniforms, too... If a civilian raised his hand and said "I can step in as CMO now that Crusher got crushed by that Rigelian monopod and all the other medical staff fell off that cliff", Picard would probably rather make him Starfleet on the spot than install him as his top doctor in civilian garb and status.
Timo Saloniemi
Torres may have been "half Starfleet", but that clearly has no bearing on whether she got to wear a uniform: most Maquis explicity were not Starfleet by any fraction, but all got uniforms, and e.g. Seska got officer pips without any Starfleet background whatsoever.
Torres got to be CEO because she was a good engineer; Kes was probably a better nurse than Torres was an engineer, after a few weeks of studying at least.
Nevertheless, Starfleet seems to be only too happy to provide uniforms to anybody who bothers to ask, and then some - Khan and Captain Christopher got uniforms, too... If a civilian raised his hand and said "I can step in as CMO now that Crusher got crushed by that Rigelian monopod and all the other medical staff fell off that cliff", Picard would probably rather make him Starfleet on the spot than install him as his top doctor in civilian garb and status.
Timo Saloniemi
You believe that Phlox lacked the authority to medically "decertify" Archer for command?
Well, since the Earth Starfleet is not a military organization (unlike the Federation Starfleet, which is), the situation might be a bit trickier....
I keep thinking this thread says Can Canadians work on a starship?
But I have to think that Shatner would say "yes" most emphatically.
Which contains a high degree of horse feathers, it's the old walk like a duck, quacks like a duck thing.
The Starfleet depicted in ENT was a military organization. In terms of their actions and duties, there's nothing fundamentally different between ENT Starfleet and TOS Starfleet other than size.
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Then how do you explain the conversation between Forrest and Archer, where Forrest asks if Archer will have any problem with the military (i.e. the MACOs) on board, and Archer replies "I don't have a problem with non-Starfleet personnel"?
Standard Army vs. Navy rivalry, nothing more. ("Military" is the synonym of ground forces, as opposed to sea forces, the most recent century notwithstanding.)
Certainly Archer himself already had disciplined armed troops aboard before the MACO force embarked, meaning that for the purposes of this argument, the UESF was a military force and perhaps even a "military" force.
OTOH, Archer seems to be the first UESF skipper who isn't on a military mission, and his ship the first one ever built with exploration in mind. Perhaps the ENT era would have marked a transition from a military Starfleet to a nonmilitary one, if not for all the pesky wars intervening?
Timo Saloniemi
Certainly Archer himself already had disciplined armed troops aboard before the MACO force embarked, meaning that for the purposes of this argument, the UESF was a military force and perhaps even a "military" force.
OTOH, Archer seems to be the first UESF skipper who isn't on a military mission, and his ship the first one ever built with exploration in mind. Perhaps the ENT era would have marked a transition from a military Starfleet to a nonmilitary one, if not for all the pesky wars intervening?
Timo Saloniemi
The Enterprise did have armed personnel.
Malcolm had a security team on board. And I remember Malcolm training Hoshi in the use of a new generation of sidearm, Hoshi stating that she was proficient in the previous sidearm.
From a certain way of looking at it, most everyone aboard was a weapons trained "troop."
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