Can civilians work on a starship?

[talfe'anhar]

I'm creating a fan fiction girlfriend/wife for Kirk, and I originally had her working in a coffee bar in San Francisco similar to a Starbucks or that place in Los Angeles that Chris Pine goes to, but the timeline wasn't fitting right, so I figured, why not have her run a coffee bar on the ship? Or at Space Dock. That's where they will meet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm creating a fan fiction girlfriend/wife for Kirk, and I originally had her working in a coffee bar in San Francisco similar to a Starbucks or that place in Los Angeles that Chris Pine goes to, but the timeline wasn't fitting right, so I figured, why not have her run a coffee bar on the ship? Or at Space Dock. That's where they will meet.

I'd go with Space dock. Kirk's ship didn't have amenities like a coffee bar. His coffee came from the Food synthesizer and was served by a yeoman.

 

[mythme]

I'm sure that mission-specific science vessels often carry specialists. maybe they don't stay onboard for years and years but they probably have a symbiotic relationship with Starfleet. The Civilian has the know-how while Starfleet has the means and the manpower. The probably includes missions like Terraforming (like Setyiak in "Second Sight"), cultural studies (like the duck blinds in "Who Watches the Watchers" and "Insurrection"), and astral sciences and chartography (like Timicin in "Half a Life")

 

[trekshark]

Mot never wore a uniform, was never addressed by rank and spoke casually with the senior officers. It would very odd if he was not a civilian.

yet he was also called "the best barber in starfleet" by Riker

 

[HIjol]

From Memory Alpha:
Although Starfleet crewmembers staffed the vital positions on board the Enterprise, civilian crewmembers were allowed to hold important jobs in the ship's science and medical departments, as well as support areas like Ten Forward and the ship's school or the Arboretum. (TNG: "Night Terrors", "Hero Worship", "Ethics")

Anybody know if we have civilians serving on Aircraft Carriers and the like?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Anybody know if we have civilians serving on Aircraft Carriers and the like?

Tech reps from the contractors that make some of the equipment on board, a few teachers, some repair people when the ship is in port - very limited numbers.

 

[HIjol]

...thank you, Triumphant...did not think the numbers would be large, if at all...

 

[USS Triumphant]

...thank you, Triumphant...did not think the numbers would be large, if at all...

But... we also don't let families live with crew, either. I think a better analogy to the situation with civilians aboard the -D might be a naval *base*.

 

[bbjeg]

While we're listing civilians working on starships, we should mention Voyager's Kes, Neelix, and Seven of Nine. They each held positions on Voyager, while never actually being Starfleet (regardless of how many Seven assimilated).

Very unusual situation there, too, since they were *at least* as much Starfleet as some of the Marquis crew. If not more than some in the case of Kes and Neelix, since they at least volunteered to be there.

Was it ever specified that the Maquis crew were Ex-Starfleet? It is odd that Janeway made them honorary Starfleet officers but not Neelix, Kes, and the overqualified Seven.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Some of the Maquis were former Starfleet (like Chakotay) but others weren't.

 

[Kevman7987]

^ Some of the Maquis were former Starfleet (like Chakotay) but others weren't.

So Janeway just gave the non-Starfleet ex-Maquis non-com ranks and made them support staff in whatever department they'd showed promise?

 

[Tribble puncher]

From what I understand pretty much until the Borg attack on earth all federation starships had Families on board, Siskos old ship the Saratoga Had families on board and it was an old Soyuz class ship. I think Starfleet was just Incredibly optimistic at that time, They were at peace with the Klingons, The Romulans had Resurfaced but didn't seem interested in an all out war. The Cardassians and Talarians were more or less "Minor" powers, and I would Imagine the destruction of the first borg cube probably lulled the alpha quadrant into a further sense of "the worst is behind us". Just looking at the design of the Galaxy class, you get the feeling the federation was going in a "giant city in space" direction with ship design. I would wager they visualised giant self sufficient ships many miles in length filled with all the amenities a large town or city would offer being built within 100 years. And large scale conflict being a thing of the past. of course a second borg cube and the Dominion derailed that train......

 

[bbjeg]

^ Some of the Maquis were former Starfleet (like Chakotay) but others weren't.

So Janeway just gave the non-Starfleet ex-Maquis non-com ranks and made them support staff in whatever department they'd showed promise?

But what makes the ex-Maquis non-com ranks deserving of wearing Starfleet uniforms but not Neelix, Kes, and Seven?

 

[USS Triumphant]

of course a second borg cube and the Dominion derailed that train......

I think the first Borg cube - not even the one at Earth, but the one Q flung the Enterprise out to meet - probably derailed it. It just took from that point up until Generations for Starfleet to take the Defiant, Sovereign, and similar classes with more of a combat footing from design to production.

But what makes the ex-Maquis non-com ranks deserving of wearing Starfleet uniforms but not Neelix, Kes, and Seven?

I know, right? Especially with Neelix and Kes, it flies in the face of Janeway's insistence that Voyager's crew would be Starfleet. (Seven might still have been in the catsuit for whatever BS "medical" reasons the showrunners came up with to keep her in a skintight outfit to boost ratings. It *could* have at least had the Starfleet uniform color pattern, though. Probably would have been more attractive looking, at that.)

 

[Push The Button]

Just as an aside, NASA is a civilian agency. A NASA astronaut may be an active duty member of one of the military branches while also working for NASA, may be a former member of a military branch, or may have never served at all. Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt was a civilian that walked on the moon.

Also, an astronaut is any person that travels beyond the earth's atmosphere (100 kilometers or 62 miles altitude, commonly known as the Karman Line), no special training or other qualifications required, so if you can get up there somehow, congratulations, you're an astronaut!

So, can civilians work on a starship? Why not? Picard let a 15 year old kid pilot his ship, so anything is possible.

 

[T'Girl]

Also, an astronaut is any person that travels beyond the earth's atmosphere (100 kilometers or 62 miles altitude, commonly known as the Karman Line)

I'm pretty sure that once sub-orbital passager travel and later general space travel becomes more common that designation will be dropped.

Either that or a different term will be used to denote people who actually work in space.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Some of the Maquis were former Starfleet (like Chakotay) but others weren't.

So Janeway just gave the non-Starfleet ex-Maquis non-com ranks and made them support staff in whatever department they'd showed promise?

But what makes the ex-Maquis non-com ranks deserving of wearing Starfleet uniforms but not Neelix, Kes, and Seven?

Neelix and Kes didn't serve Starfleet roles on the ship - Neelix just cooked, and Kes was a nurse. As for Seven? She had to wear a special catsuit to support her frame after the removal of the Borg gear. Although she probably could have later worn a Starfleet uniform - she just didn't want to.

As for the rest of the Maquis? Janeway probably just wanted to make them feel useful. And given the nature of the Maquis' "activities", they probably knew a fair bit about starship operations anyway, even those of them who were never in Starfleet.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Neelix and Kes didn't serve Starfleet roles on the ship - Neelix just cooked, and Kes was a nurse.

Chef (Enterprise) and Nurse Chapel (TOS) weren't in Starfleet?

 

[Timo]

The Maquis supposedly weren't "useful" - they were "vital"; the ship wouldn't have moved if not for their contribution. By giving them Starfleet uniforms, Janeway forced/lured them under her command (or more exactly under the command of Chakotay who voluntarily returned to that uniform); by giving them "special" rank pins, she reminded them of the fact that they weren't really worthy of their uniforms and would be executed, uh, brainwashed back to mental health at return to Earth. Unless they behaved, that is. Perhaps. Just possibly.

I don't see the last couple of TNG movies as sufficient proof that Starfleet would have decreased the number of families aboard starships. We saw extremely little of shipboard life on the E-E, way too little to demonstrate lack of civilian presence...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Neelix and Kes didn't serve Starfleet roles on the ship - Neelix just cooked, and Kes was a nurse.

Chef (Enterprise) and Nurse Chapel (TOS) weren't in Starfleet?

Chef? We have no idea.

Chapel? She was, yes. But Kes wasn't.