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Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

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Yeah people often react to these discussions with "but star trek shouldn't be about sex it's a family show ". But we are not talking about sex here, it's about no longer clinging to a false normative, gays don't exist, as the default.

Exactly. A same sex relationship is the same as a hetero relationship, except that the genders are the same. Everything else still applies.

You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.
 
Yeah people often react to these discussions with "but star trek shouldn't be about sex it's a family show ". But we are not talking about sex here, it's about no longer clinging to a false normative, gays don't exist, as the default.

Exactly. A same sex relationship is the same as a hetero relationship, except that the genders are the same. Everything else still applies.

You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.

I'm not discussing this with you. Drop it.
 
Exactly. A same sex relationship is the same as a hetero relationship, except that the genders are the same. Everything else still applies.

You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.

I'm not discussing this with you. Drop it.

Feel free not to discuss it.
I will feel free to point out just how inconsistent your position is.
 
Yeah people often react to these discussions with "but star trek shouldn't be about sex it's a family show ". But we are not talking about sex here, it's about no longer clinging to a false normative, gays don't exist, as the default.

Exactly. A same sex relationship is the same as a hetero relationship, except that the genders are the same. Everything else still applies.

You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.
That's a neanderthal view of family

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.
Gee, if only there were things like artificial insemination and such for folks to have kids who might want them.
 
Gov Kodos

I see you are living in a teen soap-opera. You desperately try to, at any rate.
Well - you can try to redefine the concept of 'family' all you want; your redefined concept will be, as opposed to of crucial importance to society (creating the next generation and all that), useless to society.
How does the saying go? 'You can call something a cow, but you can't milk it'.

Also - You need to read up on artificial insemination - and what is required for it. You further need to read up on the percentage of families who have and raise children vs the percentage of homosexual couples who raise children.

PS - Nothing on polygamy, I see. This issue seems to...keep slipping from your mind.

:evil:
 
teacake

As said:
You complain about a lack of homosexual relations in star trek because they're viewed with some social opprobium and you think homosexuality is not propagandized enough in trek/whatever medium.

Well, polygamy is not only viewed with social opprobium, its criminalized - see bigamy.
But you don't even think about complaining vis-a-vis this - asking for the legalization of bigamy, for equal legal standing with monogamous couples, for removal of social opprobium, for propaganda in support of these things.
Why?
Simply because "opinion makers" did not preach about these, and, as such, you were not properly indoctrinated along these lines. Consistency, logic? - these were never part of the equation - but I'm sure you think otherwise.

:evil:
Really, everyone - if you want to maintain/rebuild the thin veneer of consistency you wish for your beliefs to have, you must only write in this thread a few walls of text filled with rhetoric and various logical fallacies.
I won't bother answering to it all - if at all. It's too much to write for little gain.
You should call Sci in this thread - he's unsurpassed at writing walls of text filled with gibberish.
 
Why write walls of text when you can boil it all down to one word.

Pronouns.

Though if anyone wants my essay on Brave New Trek, the inter racial kiss of 21st Century tv I'll be glad to go off on a fantasy jag. I have plans.
 
teacake

Indeed. Pretending I didn't just nullify your 'arguments' and repeating them should work too - after I point this out, of course.
 
Oh well you're no fun.. what do YOU wish for in Star Trek? What is it you never saw in Star Trek you think would make living there better?
 
teacake

What I would wish for in a hypothetical future star trek series is a more appropriate question. 'Living there better' imbues star trek with far more reality than it possesses.

How about this: I would primarily wish for star trek to concentrate on telling a good/entertaining story instead of everyone using it as a vehicle to promote - or whine over - their minutiae of political correctness?
 
Maybe that's why JJ Trek is full of the menz, because you got your way?

:lol:

OH but I have hope, hope for better times. I'm a very hopeful person. My fantasy Trek WILL exist one day and I will be in my nursing home lingering over the pause button on the best scenes.

"TONIGHT on HBOXXX the final frontier just got.."
 
What I would wish for in a hypothetical future star trek series is a more appropriate question.
There's no shortage of threads dedicated to that very question. This isn't one of them.


I'd like holoemitters throughout my home so I could redecorate it as often as I wanted, as weird or nice as I wanted, using some of the rather odd and interesting ideas from the "Trading Spaces" TV show.

Yes, I realize I could just do all the decorating on the holodeck itself, but that's not where I'd actually be living.
 
You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.

How about this: I would primarily wish for star trek to concentrate on telling a good/entertaining story instead of everyone using it as a vehicle to promote - or whine over - their minutiae of political correctness?
Star Trek has a particular, rather optimistic vision of the future. Part of that is a more enlightened society that has advanced closer to true equality where matters of prejudice, ignorance and hate are behind us. The vision is part of how it tells a "good/entertaining story", it's not just here to entertain with action and adventure. If you have a problem with certain views being advocated then, I dunno, you're basically at odds with the nature of Trek?

And so in its version of 24th century society, I would have thought elimination of prejudice against homosexuality is more important than every couple being a baby-making unit. And where where equality for a section of society that is doing nothing harmful and has every right to openly be the people they are, isn't dismissed as matters of political correctness.

As for polygamy, that's a separate question. And even if advocating for A logically entails advocating for B, and people are failing to advociate for B, it doesn't mean advocating for A is automatically wrong.
 
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PS - Nothing on polygamy, I see. This issue seems to...keep slipping from your mind.

I don't give two shits about polygamy. If a dude is stupid enough to have more than one wife, more power to him. Just don't expect his employer to offer insurance coverage to more than one wife, set of kids. That would be offering an employee extra benefits they haven't earned beyond a normal employee. Same goes for government benefits. I'm pretty sure my wife would tell you the same exact thing.

Your stance on gay couples makes no sense. Straight couples are offered government protection/benefits whether they produce children or not.
 
You do know we're not living in a teen soap-opera, yes?
A 'family' is not 2 people who go on dates, a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

Now that I think of it, polygamous couples can achieve this function as well - as opposed to homosexual couples. Truly an astounding blind spot for you, what with criminalized polygamy apparently not being worth your...'advocacy'. But I'm talking logic and consistency again - not your cup of tea.
As for polygamy, that's a separate question. And even if advocating for A logically entails advocating for B, and people are failing to advociate for B, it doesn't mean advocating for A is automatically wrong.

The rationalization given for the advocacy is that 'all types of sexual relationships are equally good'.
This leads - by a very simple deduction - to advocating for homosexuality, but for polygamy, as well.
If people are advocating for homosexuality, but not for polygamy, that means the rationalization given is not the reason they're advocating for homosexuality, Stoo.
That's logic 101.

Indeed, advocating for homosexuality is a dogma - and dogmas are not big on logical foundations. Indeed, they always are 'believe and don't ask why' memes. Justification, if it exists, is always of the 'this is the right/just/enlightened/optimistic thing to believe in' kind.

How about this: I would primarily wish for star trek to concentrate on telling a good/entertaining story instead of everyone using it as a vehicle to promote - or whine over - their minutiae of political correctness?
Star Trek has a particular, rather optimistic vision of the future. Part of that is a more enlightened society that has advanced closer to true equality where matters of prejudice, ignorance and hate are behind us. The vision is part of how it tells a "good/entertaining story", it's not just here to entertain with action and adventure. If you have a problem with certain views being advocated then, I dunno, you're basically at odds with the nature of Trek?

And so in its version of 24th century society, I would have thought elimination of prejudice against homosexuality is more important than every couple being a baby-making unit. And where where equality for a section of society that is doing nothing harmful and has every right to openly be the people they are, isn't dismissed as matters of political correctness.
1 All threads discussing hot issues such as homosexuality are primarily about the real world: as said, essentially the posters complain about a lack of homosexual relations in star trek/etc because these are viewed with some social opprobium in the real world and they think homosexuality is not propagandized enough in trek/whatever medium.
You actually think your attempt to divorce this from the real world is not blatantly obvious, Stoo? Ookie-dookie.

BTW, using star trek/etc as a vehicle to promote one's PC beliefs is NOT part of good story-telling.

2 You attach your 'optimistic/enlightened' adjectives on what?
On 'homosexuality is optimistic/enlightened' or on 'all types of sexual relationships are equally good is optimistic/enlightened'?

If the former, I already covered it in this post.

Let's assume the latter (and damn the inconsistencies!):
Any society must give preferential treatment to social relations essential for its survival and flourishing - any other strategy leads to negative effects on the society. This, regardless of how many enlightened/optimistic adjectives you use to argue for the contrary.

And the social relations relating to giving birth and raising the next generation ARE essential for a society.
That is to say, I like how you tried to use the negative imagery of "baby-making unit" to argue for the contrary. Well done, Stoo.

This is true of the star trek society, as well.
Not of Iain Banks Culture society, though. Why? Because, in the Culture, humans are essentially parasites on the Culture; and weak parasites, at that - they can't even come close to straining the resources of the godlike AI rulers, no matter what they do. Nothing humans do is essential for anything.

a family is 2 people who have and raise children. An endeavor of crucial importance to society - which is why the family gained its legal protection.

A family is were children are raised.

As said:

[...]
Well - you can try to redefine the concept of 'family' all you want; your redefined concept will be, as opposed to of crucial importance to society (creating the next generation and all that), useless to society.
How does the saying go? 'You can call something a cow, but you can't milk it'.

[...]You further need to read up on the percentage of families who have and raise children vs the percentage of homosexual couples who raise children.
PS - Stoo, beamMe, congratulations. You actually made me write a long post. Oh well.
 
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