MAN OF STEEL: Another look

[AgentCoop]

^I don't think I agree with that. The Battle Of New York goes on for a LONG time. Most people overlook that because it's so much fun to watch. But come on, all those Chitauri war chariots zipping around have to land SOMEWHERE after Thor or Hawkeye takes them out. I feel like there's a double standard at work here just because The Avengers are currently more popular than Superman.

 

[Aldo]

I admit I am a bit biased, as I do love Avengers over MoS (which I just found to be decent).

But taking a look at the aftermath of both events, New York is still more or less standing, in fact not one building fell. Sure there will have to be a lot of work done on the buildings as they did take damage, but nothing to the extent of MoS, where buildings were falling left and right.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Damage appraisers put the Battle of New York at a scale that was about 9/11 plus Hurricane Katrina combined. The damage in Man of Steel is estimated to be about four to five times greater than that in The Avengers. It basically comes down to a choice of showing how much damage would be done if super-powered battles like this actually occurred.

Action movies have never been big on absolute emotional realism in the wake of mass death and destruction. Princess Leia bounces back from the destruction of Alderaan very quickly.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Damage appraisers put the Battle of New York at a scale that was about 9/11 plus Hurricane Katrina combined. The damage in Man of Steel is estimated to be about four to five times greater than that in The Avengers. It basically comes down to a choice of showing how much damage would be done if super-powered battles like this actually occurred.

Action movies have never been big on absolute emotional realism in the wake of mass death and destruction. Princess Leia bounces back from the destruction of Alderaan very quickly.

I wonder how much the damage costs in STID (with Khan crashing the Vengeance into all those buildings in San Fransico) and Transformers 3 (with the Decepticons wrecking Chicago) tallied up to be? Lol

 

[DEWLine]

Good question, that.

 

[DWF]

I admit I am a bit biased, as I do love Avengers over MoS (which I just found to be decent).

But taking a look at the aftermath of both events, New York is still more or less standing, in fact not one building fell. Sure there will have to be a lot of work done on the buildings as they did take damage, but nothing to the extent of MoS, where buildings were falling left and right.

There's a huge difference between an invasion force and an attempt to terraform the planet.

 

[DEWLine]

There was at least one building that one of the Chitauri "Leviathans" landed on spinal column-first when Stark blew up their mothership that I suspect had to be condemned after the fact.

 

[urbandefault]

I guess I don't get what the problem is. It's not real, after all.

Some people seem to be more concerned with how Superman fights a bunch of aliens than what goes on in real life.

Movies are supposed to be an escape from reality, not a substitute.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Harvey]

I wonder how much the damage costs in STID (with Khan crashing the Vengeance into all those buildings in San Fransico) and Transformers 3 (with the Decepticons wrecking Chicago) tallied up to be? Lol

I thought the final scene of STID, which took place a year later and was a memorial for all the people who died, did a nicer job than most blockbusters of acknowledging the dead. I haven't seen Transformers: Dark of the Moon. The first movie was abysmal, and I'm told it only gets worse from there.

--

As for the final scene of Man of Steel, I'll reiterate my point from above -- tonally, it was just out of place. It's not about what was in the comics. Let's face it -- at this point, Superman has been around in comics long enough that I'm sure the tone of the comics has run the gamut from dark and brooding to light and campy (and everywhere in between). Imagine a similarly jokey scene at the end of any of Nolan's Batman movies (which, for better or worse, are pretty close in tone to the Nolan-produced Man of Steel) and maybe you'll see what I mean.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I wonder how much the damage costs in STID (with Khan crashing the Vengeance into all those buildings in San Fransico) and Transformers 3 (with the Decepticons wrecking Chicago) tallied up to be? Lol

I thought the final scene of STID, which took place a year later and was a memorial for all the people who died, did a nicer job than most blockbusters of acknowledging the dead. I haven't seen Transformers: Dark of the Moon. The first movie was abysmal, and I'm told it only gets worse from there.

I see the memorial at the end of STID as more of a Starfleet function. Kirk is giving the speech about Marcus' actions and the pursuit of justice, the crowd is filled with formal wear Starfleet personel, Kirk references Captain Pike, and says that it is to rechristen the USS Enterprise.

It just didn't feel like a memorial for the civilians killed by Khan.

This is the initial attack on Chicago by the Decepticons BEFORE the Autobots arrive to liberate the city; and cause even more destruction. The command to attack given by Sentinel Prime: voiced by the Leonard Nimoy
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kjmlp6_2v4[/yt]



This happens the the Autobots arrive to liberate Chicago
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0fJ2NvzcDc[/yt]

Sentinel's "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" line. XD
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pR6PwiwirU[/yt]


The violence and mass destruction in TF3 feels EXTREMELY mean spirited compared to MOS or Avengers.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I admit I am a bit biased, as I do love Avengers over MoS (which I just found to be decent).

But taking a look at the aftermath of both events, New York is still more or less standing, in fact not one building fell. Sure there will have to be a lot of work done on the buildings as they did take damage, but nothing to the extent of MoS, where buildings were falling left and right.

Plus, The Avengers do a pretty good job at trying to contain the Chitauri and the damage. Captain America even has a line about containing the battle and setting road blocks or whatever.

In Man of Steel, Superman makes no such effort to contain the damage he and Zod inflict upon Metropolis nor makes any mention about it. There could have been a simple scene where Superman levitates above some police officers and advises them to "keep guard" or set road blocks or something - but he never makes an effort or attempt to try and stop the destruction. If anything, his city-wide brawl with Zod inflicts even more damage.

 

[Anwar]

Most of the damage was done by Zod. At worst, Superman breaks a wall or so. When Superman is fighting, he smacks Zod in the empty air, not through buildings. Zod is the one doing that.

And he couldn't pull him out of the city, because Zod would pull him back.

 

[Mr Light]

Maybe the second movie will take place before that final Clark at the Planet scene in MOS? And that was a one year later flash-forward to the ending of the second movie?

Is it confirmed, or only assumed, that the sequel will show Lex Luthor running bad press against Superman for destroying Metropolis?

 

[DEWLine]

Most of the damage was done by Zod. At worst, Superman breaks a wall or so. When Superman is fighting, he smacks Zod in the empty air, not through buildings. Zod is the one doing that.

And he couldn't pull him out of the city, because Zod would pull him back.

It is SO good to see other viewers having noticed this!

 

[Ovation]

I admit I am a bit biased, as I do love Avengers over MoS (which I just found to be decent).

But taking a look at the aftermath of both events, New York is still more or less standing, in fact not one building fell. Sure there will have to be a lot of work done on the buildings as they did take damage, but nothing to the extent of MoS, where buildings were falling left and right.

Plus, The Avengers do a pretty good job at trying to contain the Chitauri and the damage. Captain America even has a line about containing the battle and setting road blocks or whatever.

In Man of Steel, Superman makes no such effort to contain the damage he and Zod inflict upon Metropolis nor makes any mention about it. There could have been a simple scene where Superman levitates above some police officers and advises them to "keep guard" or set road blocks or something - but he never makes an effort or attempt to try and stop the destruction. If anything, his city-wide brawl with Zod inflicts even more damage.

Superman is on his FIRST DAY ON THE JOB. Oh and he's ALONE with powers on his side. As well as what others have pointed out about Zod. But "first day on the job" is a major point that cannot be overstated.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

^^^
Yeah, and he's not even really Superman yet. He's a young guy thrown into extreme violence, doing his best to cope with the situation.

 

[Ovation]

Precisely.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I hear that point being made a lot and I can kinda see it. However, I think what bothers me is that we have this elaborate, big action sequence in Smallville where Superman fights Zod (to a small content), Faora and other Kyptonians. I get that Superman doesn't have a lot of experience and that this is all relatively new to him. I also get that he's out-matched, which is why I can kinda buy Smallville being eviscerated off the map. Although, if memory serves me correctly, Superman does try to take the action beyond Smallville but fails. Then again it has been a while since I've seen the movie.

However, it just would have been nice to have one small moment where it seems Superman cares about the citizens of Metropolis or tries to stop all the major destruction that is being inflicted upon Metropolis. By the time he squares off solely against Zod, he did just come off that huge battle with Faora and the other Kryptonians. It would have been nice to see some kind of effort from Superman to either save lives or stop a building from falling over or destroy some kind of falling debris (something we see in Superman Returns).

It also would have added a compelling element to the finale. As it is in the film, we just see Superman and Zod fight across Metropolis which is essentially just more of what we saw in the Smallville sequence. There doesn't feel much at stake by this point in the film - the World Engine had been destroyed and most of the Kryptonians had been defeated or killed. Yes, there's Zod, but there is just no momentum or suspense to his brawl with Superman. It feels like destruction porn to be honest. If Zod had started killing people or endangering people or putting people directly in harm's way or something it would have made the sequence interesting or somewhat different than what we've seen before. I'm not expecting much - I get this is Superman's first outing and I expect to see him make mistakes. The total disregard of human life, however, is a bit more striking and something I can't quite excuse.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

If it must be said again, I will say it. Level of threat in MOS =/= level of threat in Avengers. The Chitauri army was fodder for the Avengers to join together and beat up. They were felled by bullets from handguns and arrows. Captain America ripped them apart with his bare hands. Iron Man made short work of dozens of them. To Thor and the Hulk; the Chitauri provided no challenge what so ever.

Compare to MOS where Superman alone faced multiple beings with the same level of strength, stamina, mobility and endurance that he had. Superman also had to contend with the terraforming World Engine in India. We saw it's effects in Metropolis, and the civilian population. Superman himself struggled in the both the atmosphere and intense gravity the machine generated. Through sheer force of will he overcomes.

Remember also that Marvel and DC rank Thor and Superman as being equals. You could substitute Superman in place of Thor with regards to the Avengers or either of Thor's solo movies. If you do that, you come to the conclusion that the threat in the Avengers was pretty weak in retrospect. However Avengers was about the heroes coming together and fighting an opposing force. The gathering was the attraction not the action.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

However, it just would have been nice to have one small moment where it seems Superman cares about the citizens of Metropolis or tries to stop all the major destruction that is being inflicted upon Metropolis. By the time he squares off solely against Zod, he did just come off that huge battle with Faora and the other Kryptonians. It would have been nice to see some kind of effort from Superman to either save lives or stop a building from falling over or destroy some kind of falling debris (something we see in Superman Returns).

Saving the planet isn't enough? Superman was on the other side of the world stopping the World Engine while Metropolis was being razed to the ground. Superman was depending on the US Military to fulfill the other part of the plan they had formulated. Superman can't be all places at once.

It also would have added a compelling element to the finale. As it is in the film, we just see Superman and Zod fight across Metropolis which is essentially just more of what we saw in the Smallville sequence. There doesn't feel much at stake by this point in the film - the World Engine had been destroyed and most of the Kryptonians had been defeated or killed. Yes, there's Zod, but there is just no momentum or suspense to his brawl with Superman. It feels like destruction porn to be honest. If Zod had started killing people or endangering people or putting people directly in harm's way or something it would have made the sequence interesting or somewhat different than what we've seen before. I'm not expecting much - I get this is Superman's first outing and I expect to see him make mistakes. The total disregard of human life, however, is a bit more striking and something I can't quite excuse.

Zod had already killed hundreds if not thousands of people in Metropolis. Why does he need to kill more people in order to motivate Superman to act? Zod was planning genocide of Earth even before he spoke to Kal-El on board their ship. After his plans were spoiled, there was nothing to stop him from continuing his plan to kill humanity. He stated several times that's what he means to do.

Superman saves the planet. He chooses Earth over Krytpon. He does not disregard human life. He's focused on his task which is stopping the immediate threat posed to humanity. It's the same thing we see in multiple Superman comics (versus Metallo, Mongul, Doomsday, Darkseid etc). Where Superman can't get away from his foe long enough to help people in need. Also unlike the Zod in Superman II who was fond of standing around posturing and expositing dialogue. The Zod of MOS was hard-pressed to end Superman's life at any cost. He never gave Kal a reprieve.