Because, of course, the armed forces never commit atrocities or become tyrants and despots when they take power. Ever. The armed forces are morally incorruptible.
What if Admiral Leyton's Coup Was Successful?
- Thread starter Emperor Norton
- Start date
Because, of course, the armed forces never commit atrocities or become tyrants and despots when they take power. Ever. The armed forces are morally incorruptible.
All it takes to maintain power is loyalty and force. There may be some need for a lighter hand early on, but it can get harder as time progresses. Leyton was already moving people into key positions, which indicates he would continue to do so and would make sure the government and military were loyal to the cabal. Anyone else, as that story arc showed, would be discredited or eliminated as necessary. And Leyton would rig elaborate ruses to do so. Imagine, say, a fleet is told they are part of a wargames scenario and all sorts of holographic trickery is rigged up to make them think their adversary fleet is in on it, while the adversary fleet has no idea. So you've just tricked Federation ships into actually firing on their allies, tricking them into being traitors.
And I will say this of Leyton. He may have started out with honest intents and morals, but the lure of power and actually being close to attaining it would corrupt him. It already had.
And I will say this of Leyton. He may have started out with honest intents and morals, but the lure of power and actually being close to attaining it would corrupt him. It already had.
On a related note to what I've come to refer to as the Leytonverse:
One of the things that annoys me about Star Trek is that, as part of the tension, they're constantly setting up jerk aliens and antagonists often with the orb of stupidity in hand. I hate farce, and to paraphrase Buster Keaton the problem with it is that once you stop to talk and think it all falls apart, and that Star Trek narrative is a sort of farce. "You murdered so and so" and it turns out they didn't because obviously Picard or Riker or whoever didn't, but the aliens were stupid and it gets resolved, cue credits.
And on a related note, another thing that does annoy me is that you'll have the antagonists do something horrible or be jerks, and then have some Picard diplomacy treatment towards them and have them be let go or otherwise not properly dealt with. I do recall that happening quite a bit. It didn't happen as much in the TOS days, but the whole "We're better humans" 24th century thing really made it take off.
Something I like about the Mirror Universe and what I've seen of DS9 is there is a no nonsense mentality. It's like Liam Neeson in Taken; they aren't messing around. If you are a problem, you are getting vaporized; moving on. (And in the Mirror universe, everyone's the same type of jerk anyway, so it doesn't matter who does what to whom.)
That is really why I fell in love with Firefly as well, because one of the bad guys gave his whole "I'm gonna hunt you down" speech when he was captured and they were talking about letting him go, so Reynolds kicked him into the engine turbine to his death. In TNG had that same situation happened, Picard would have talked about duty and being better and all that sort of thing, and then there'd be an episode a season later where they came back and killed some people and endangered the crew. That's why it surprised me.
In the Leytonverse, I think it'd be a no nonsense universe. I think Leyton's Starfleet, regardless of if it's evil or not, would be no nonsense like that, and I think whatever rebellion there is would be no nonsense like that. The "easy to be a saint in paradise" rule applies, and the Leyton Starfleet would do it because they'd be more militaristic and it'd be the jerks who won.
One of the things that annoys me about Star Trek is that, as part of the tension, they're constantly setting up jerk aliens and antagonists often with the orb of stupidity in hand. I hate farce, and to paraphrase Buster Keaton the problem with it is that once you stop to talk and think it all falls apart, and that Star Trek narrative is a sort of farce. "You murdered so and so" and it turns out they didn't because obviously Picard or Riker or whoever didn't, but the aliens were stupid and it gets resolved, cue credits.
And on a related note, another thing that does annoy me is that you'll have the antagonists do something horrible or be jerks, and then have some Picard diplomacy treatment towards them and have them be let go or otherwise not properly dealt with. I do recall that happening quite a bit. It didn't happen as much in the TOS days, but the whole "We're better humans" 24th century thing really made it take off.
Something I like about the Mirror Universe and what I've seen of DS9 is there is a no nonsense mentality. It's like Liam Neeson in Taken; they aren't messing around. If you are a problem, you are getting vaporized; moving on. (And in the Mirror universe, everyone's the same type of jerk anyway, so it doesn't matter who does what to whom.)
That is really why I fell in love with Firefly as well, because one of the bad guys gave his whole "I'm gonna hunt you down" speech when he was captured and they were talking about letting him go, so Reynolds kicked him into the engine turbine to his death. In TNG had that same situation happened, Picard would have talked about duty and being better and all that sort of thing, and then there'd be an episode a season later where they came back and killed some people and endangered the crew. That's why it surprised me.
In the Leytonverse, I think it'd be a no nonsense universe. I think Leyton's Starfleet, regardless of if it's evil or not, would be no nonsense like that, and I think whatever rebellion there is would be no nonsense like that. The "easy to be a saint in paradise" rule applies, and the Leyton Starfleet would do it because they'd be more militaristic and it'd be the jerks who won.
It makes sense as you point out if they were concerned that Leyton's coup would succeed without any opposition and it would strengthen the Federation and hamper the Dominion's efforts to sow chaos and weaken the region. Also by spurring Sisko to action it sets up a conflict in Starfleet and best case scenario is that Starfleet is fractured and results in an armed conflict or is paralysed trying to sort things out diminishing the Federation's power in the region.
Add onto which you'd be removing a number of high ranking officers throughout Starfleet; there are the ones we saw and the ones we never saw, and at least a lot of them would be prosecuted. A loss of competent officers would hurt any war effort.
It didn't happen much in the TOS days because back then the Feds only had one major enemy, the Klingons. The rest of the time they themselves were the bigger bullies who went around trying to intimidate other worlds into giving them what they wanted (A Taste of Armageddon, for example) so in fact they might be seen as the jerks if seen from an outsider's POV.
TNG onwards, the Feds have a lot of enemies and they can't just kill everyone in their path who acts less than pleasant without upsetting the Balance of Galactic Order so they have to go through proper channels which usually doesn't include just killing people (though it still happened occasionally). They start doing that, it comes off as them being more aggressive which would alarm their numerous enemies into becoming more hostile to them too which isn't good for anyone.
A big reason the exterior of the Serenity was design the way she was, was to make that one scene work.
That scene alway reminds me of one of the early Star Wars novels, where Han Solo is chasing the bad guy through the Millennium Falcon and bad guy accidentally turns into a air lock. He give a lovely speech about how Solo isn't quite the despicable criminal he portrays himself to be and that Solo really needs him alive, at which point Solo fires the bad guy out of the air lock and into hyperspace.
Leytonverse
Option 1 - Sisko's support
Paradise Lost
Leyton's coup succeeds, due to Sisko's support. Odo objects. Odo is imprisoned. Sisko remains on Earth.
Crossfire
Kira has taken command of Deep Space Nine (Worf is in command of the Starfleet forces). Civil War has broken out in the Federation. Leyton controls the core worlds (Earth, Mars, Andor, Tellar and the surrounding regions) and is holding the Federation Council hostage. The rest of the Federation is defended by portions of Starfleet that view Leyton as a traitor (Including the Enterprise) and by the militaries of the free members. Deep Space Nine has declared neutrality, as has the Bajoran Government.
Shakaar visits the Station to officially announce the Bajoran Government's stance on the standoff within the Federation.
(Kira still falls in love with Shakaar, and Odo is still distracted. The turbolift scene still happens.)
Return to Grace
Shakaar still sends Kira to the Cardassian outpost (leaving Worf in command of DS9). Dukat is still sent to take Kira there. The Klingons still destroy the outpost.
Dukat still ends up with the Bird of Prey, and returns Kira to the station.
Sons of Mogh
Kurn still arrives at the station and asks Worf for the Mauk-to'Vor...
However, Dax and Odo don't make it in time and Kurn dies...
Worf is arrested, and relieved of command. (Dax is in command of the Starfleet officers on DS9 now)
When Kira returns, she angrily asks Worf why he shouldn't be sent to a Bajoran prison to rot. (The situation with Leyton is still in a stalemate, the Federation is still divided in two).
Worf gives no answer.
Without Kurn helping them to access the Klingons systems, the Klingons begin a blockade of the Bajoran system...
Additionally, Gowron suspects Leyton of being a changeling and orders an invasion of the Leyton held areas of the Federation...
Option 1 - Sisko's support
Paradise Lost
Leyton's coup succeeds, due to Sisko's support. Odo objects. Odo is imprisoned. Sisko remains on Earth.
Crossfire
Kira has taken command of Deep Space Nine (Worf is in command of the Starfleet forces). Civil War has broken out in the Federation. Leyton controls the core worlds (Earth, Mars, Andor, Tellar and the surrounding regions) and is holding the Federation Council hostage. The rest of the Federation is defended by portions of Starfleet that view Leyton as a traitor (Including the Enterprise) and by the militaries of the free members. Deep Space Nine has declared neutrality, as has the Bajoran Government.
Shakaar visits the Station to officially announce the Bajoran Government's stance on the standoff within the Federation.
(Kira still falls in love with Shakaar, and Odo is still distracted. The turbolift scene still happens.)
Return to Grace
Shakaar still sends Kira to the Cardassian outpost (leaving Worf in command of DS9). Dukat is still sent to take Kira there. The Klingons still destroy the outpost.
Dukat still ends up with the Bird of Prey, and returns Kira to the station.
Sons of Mogh
Kurn still arrives at the station and asks Worf for the Mauk-to'Vor...
However, Dax and Odo don't make it in time and Kurn dies...
Worf is arrested, and relieved of command. (Dax is in command of the Starfleet officers on DS9 now)
When Kira returns, she angrily asks Worf why he shouldn't be sent to a Bajoran prison to rot. (The situation with Leyton is still in a stalemate, the Federation is still divided in two).
Worf gives no answer.
Without Kurn helping them to access the Klingons systems, the Klingons begin a blockade of the Bajoran system...
Additionally, Gowron suspects Leyton of being a changeling and orders an invasion of the Leyton held areas of the Federation...
How do you reconcile that with Dr. McCoy ending his own father life in TFF, and then retaining his rank and position?
Why exactly is Worf arrested?
Bar Association
Rom still forms his Union. (Odo dislikes having a mob on the Promenade, but Dax gives the order not the interfere) Brunt is unable to get to the station due to the Klingon Blockade... The strike continues.
The FCA convinces Zek to use Marauders to break the blockade (after a conversation between him and Gowron goes nowhere)...
In the meantime rumours of Rom's Union spread through Ferengi territory...
Accession
Keiko returns to DS9. And Akorem Laan arrives.
On Earth, Leyton pressures Sisko into giving up the role of the Emissary to the new arrival (someone on DS9 is reporting to the Leyton-Feds).
Kira and Dax are troubled when Akorem announces that the d'jarras are to come back.
Kira's attempts to be an artist are interrupted when the Ferengi break the Klingon blockade to allow Brunt to come to break Rom's strike...
Gowron contacts Shakaar to say that the Ferengi won't be allowed to leave.
Imutta is killed by Porta. Dax decides that enough is enough and decides to take Akorem into the wormhole to ask the Prophets whether Akorem is the real Emissary.
The result - is inconclusive. Akorem refuses to believe that the Prophets say that he's not the Emissary, and all Dax gets is that they want Sisko to come back because he's 'of Bajor'.
The d'jarra's remain, Akorem is still Emissary, and Rom's strike comes to an end. Kira resigns from the Militia...
Dax is now in command of the station.
Zek asks Gowron to allow the Marauder that brought Brunt to the station to leave Bajoran space. The Chancellor refuses. "News of that strike has spread. I need all the liqudators that I can get!"
"I don't care! End of discussion. No one leaves the Bajoran system!"
Rules of Engagement
Doesn't happen. Worf is awaiting trial on Bajor and Dax is unwilling to take the Defiant out with the Klingons still blockading the system. Another (Anti-Leyton) ship escorts the convoy.
Hard Time
O'Brien still has his experience, given that Argratha is in the Gamma Quadrant.
Odo brings him back to the station (As a non-Bajoran he has no d'jarra, by this time Kira's been replaced).
(The rest of the episode happens rather similarly, with Dax in Sisko's role).
Shattered Mirror
The Alliance recaptures Terok Nor...
Rom still forms his Union. (Odo dislikes having a mob on the Promenade, but Dax gives the order not the interfere) Brunt is unable to get to the station due to the Klingon Blockade... The strike continues.
The FCA convinces Zek to use Marauders to break the blockade (after a conversation between him and Gowron goes nowhere)...
In the meantime rumours of Rom's Union spread through Ferengi territory...
Accession
Keiko returns to DS9. And Akorem Laan arrives.
On Earth, Leyton pressures Sisko into giving up the role of the Emissary to the new arrival (someone on DS9 is reporting to the Leyton-Feds).
Kira and Dax are troubled when Akorem announces that the d'jarras are to come back.
Kira's attempts to be an artist are interrupted when the Ferengi break the Klingon blockade to allow Brunt to come to break Rom's strike...
Gowron contacts Shakaar to say that the Ferengi won't be allowed to leave.
Imutta is killed by Porta. Dax decides that enough is enough and decides to take Akorem into the wormhole to ask the Prophets whether Akorem is the real Emissary.
The result - is inconclusive. Akorem refuses to believe that the Prophets say that he's not the Emissary, and all Dax gets is that they want Sisko to come back because he's 'of Bajor'.
The d'jarra's remain, Akorem is still Emissary, and Rom's strike comes to an end. Kira resigns from the Militia...
Dax is now in command of the station.
Zek asks Gowron to allow the Marauder that brought Brunt to the station to leave Bajoran space. The Chancellor refuses. "News of that strike has spread. I need all the liqudators that I can get!"
"I don't care! End of discussion. No one leaves the Bajoran system!"
Rules of Engagement
Doesn't happen. Worf is awaiting trial on Bajor and Dax is unwilling to take the Defiant out with the Klingons still blockading the system. Another (Anti-Leyton) ship escorts the convoy.
Hard Time
O'Brien still has his experience, given that Argratha is in the Gamma Quadrant.
Odo brings him back to the station (As a non-Bajoran he has no d'jarra, by this time Kira's been replaced).
(The rest of the episode happens rather similarly, with Dax in Sisko's role).
Shattered Mirror
The Alliance recaptures Terok Nor...
I do wonder at the Mirror Universe of this universe, being it is essentially a Mirror reality of sorts to the actual timeline.
With Sisko on Earth, Smiley is unable to get his help in sorting out the Mirror-Defiant's issues.
Something I really want:
Succeed Sisko as commander of DS9 with someone played by Michael Ironside. I don't care about anything else in those details; just Ironside playing some space dick.
Succeed Sisko as commander of DS9 with someone played by Michael Ironside. I don't care about anything else in those details; just Ironside playing some space dick.
Sure, the replacement the Militia sends after Kira's resignation looks like Ironside.
Of course something would have to happen to Dax...
One thing I'd also say would work into this universe, at least from a vibe perspective, would be a more brutal Dominion war. And I know the show said that the Dominion war was brutal, with half of Starfleet destroyed and the Klingons set back a decade, but I mean something more visible and personal.
I'm talking things like officers who lost limbs, lost eyes, have face scars and battle scars both psychologically and physically. I'm talking about things like the biological warfare Sisko used to get Eddington to surrender used on a tactical scale. The universe should have more battle damage.
And I do think of this alternate Dominion war as the turning point for this Federation. It gives time for the Leyton cabal to cultivate power, since it is their reason for doing so. It keeps dissent down. It means any rebellion would be regarded as treason, hence why it would come after the war I think since I also think those potential rebels would be blinded by propaganda themselves. It would allow for the entire infrastructure of dictatorship.
I'm talking things like officers who lost limbs, lost eyes, have face scars and battle scars both psychologically and physically. I'm talking about things like the biological warfare Sisko used to get Eddington to surrender used on a tactical scale. The universe should have more battle damage.
And I do think of this alternate Dominion war as the turning point for this Federation. It gives time for the Leyton cabal to cultivate power, since it is their reason for doing so. It keeps dissent down. It means any rebellion would be regarded as treason, hence why it would come after the war I think since I also think those potential rebels would be blinded by propaganda themselves. It would allow for the entire infrastructure of dictatorship.
On the topic of Michael Ironside, any alternate character should have an actor from the 90s who could plausibly have been in there were this an episode from the 90s. So go nuts with Jake Busey or Tom Skerritt.
Or go nuts with Gary Busey?
Gary Busey
The Muse
Betazed is on the Anti-Leyton side. With the Bajoran system blockaded, Lwaxana bothers the Enterprise crew about her situation. Her Tavnian husband is not allowed on the ship. Picard tries to find a situation in both Tavnian and Betazoid law. It is he who marries Lwaxana...
Onaya also goes somewhere else.
For the Cause
The Maquis haven't been idle while the Federation have been having issues. They have been continuing to deal with the Cardassians in the DMZ.
The Anti-Leyton Feds[1] send the replicators to the Cardassians (while bypassing the still blockaded Bajoran system).
Eddington hears wind of this, and absconds with the Defiant. He pretends to be on Leyton's side and captures the replicators. He then takes them to the Maquis.
As for Captain Yates, the Xhosa has been delivering medical supplies to the Maquis, but she remains free.
[1] Need a better name...
[2] Yes, the Maquis now have the Defiant...
Betazed is on the Anti-Leyton side. With the Bajoran system blockaded, Lwaxana bothers the Enterprise crew about her situation. Her Tavnian husband is not allowed on the ship. Picard tries to find a situation in both Tavnian and Betazoid law. It is he who marries Lwaxana...
Onaya also goes somewhere else.
For the Cause
The Maquis haven't been idle while the Federation have been having issues. They have been continuing to deal with the Cardassians in the DMZ.
The Anti-Leyton Feds[1] send the replicators to the Cardassians (while bypassing the still blockaded Bajoran system).
Eddington hears wind of this, and absconds with the Defiant. He pretends to be on Leyton's side and captures the replicators. He then takes them to the Maquis.
As for Captain Yates, the Xhosa has been delivering medical supplies to the Maquis, but she remains free.
[1] Need a better name...
[2] Yes, the Maquis now have the Defiant...
