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Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)_

Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

The king is an idiot...Ragnar only became enemies with Jarl Borg because the king didn't want to fight with him...now he's all, "Let's team up with Jarl Borg!"
Or it's been a way of weakening two powerful and ambitious men who were on their way to becoming bigger threats to him. Siggy may have figured out that that has been Horrik's plan in playing them the way he has, Auslaug, too.

Lagertha sticking a knife into Earl Drunk Asshole's eye was the most awesome thing I've seen on TV this year.

Very cool, hell of a Pinata party.

Also, I just love King Ecbert. What an awesome character.

He sees a bigger world than the Church would allow. And Athelstan is someone who seems to have grown beyond just seeing the world through that Church dogma and become something of a kindred spirit. He's also, admitted by himself, an ambitious man as is Ragnar. Those three all know knowledge, whatever the source, is power.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

King Ecbert is fascinating. Obviously highly ambitious, yes, but he does recognize that there is more than one narrow, defined "truth" to life. Athelstan admitting that some of the Norse gods seem similar to Christian stories seems to be what hooked Ecbert in to Athelstan as a kindred spirit.

The dynamic there is more intricate than anything I ever saw Michael Hirst write for the Tudors, yet whose to say it isn't true to life? I've done a little reading on the Anglo Saxon rulers ever since the King Alfred documentary was so politely provided upthread. King Alfred was Ecbert's grandson. Who's to say that thirst for knowledge wasn't passed on through Ethelwulf and then down to Alfred? And then Alfred's own grandson was named Athelstan, no? Very clever, Hirsch. Very clever.

Yeah, Lagertha's husband needed killing. How ironic that the pagan Norse heathens allowed their own women more freedom to take their men to task but the Christians regarded them solely as property of the husband. :rolleyes: Somebody early on in the Christian church did not want women to have power.

So--no one in Ragnar's party seemed to care for Athelstan except Ragnar and Bjorn. Fuck 'em. Sorry, but Floki's pissing me off. :scream: Siggy continues to intrigue. I like that clever wench. :techman:
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

King Ecbert is fascinating. Obviously highly ambitious, yes, but he does recognize that there is more than one narrow, defined "truth" to life. Athelstan admitting that some of the Norse gods seem similar to Christian stories seems to be what hooked Ecbert in to Athelstan as a kindred spirit.

The dynamic there is more intricate than anything I ever saw Michael Hirst write for the Tudors, yet whose to say it isn't true to life? I've done a little reading on the Anglo Saxon rulers ever since the King Alfred documentary was so politely provided upthread. King Alfred was Ecbert's grandson. Who's to say that thirst for knowledge wasn't passed on through Ethelwulf and then down to Alfred? And then Alfred's own grandson was named Athelstan, no? Very clever, Hirsch. Very clever.
The ways the societies get compared and contrasted is one of the best parts of the show. I assume that woman at Ecbert's court wouldn't have gotten off so lightly had she used her hubby for a pin cushion after a beating.



Yeah, Lagertha's husband needed killing. How ironic that the pagan Norse heathens allowed their own women more freedom to take their men to task but the Christians regarded them solely as property of the husband. :rolleyes: Somebody early on in the Christian church did not want women to have power.
Probably Augustine, a lot of crappy stuff from slavery to oppressing women, to Church domination over everything, folks always seem to point back to Augustine.

So--no one in Ragnar's party seemed to care for Athelstan except Ragnar and Bjorn. Fuck 'em. Sorry, but Floki's pissing me off. :scream: Siggy continues to intrigue. I like that clever wench. :techman:

Floki is a Norse fundamentalist. He didn't trust Athelstan because he was a Christian. Then he didn't trust him because he doesn't trust converts (remember how negatively he viewed Rollo's brief conversion to Christianity back in season one.) Also, he's short a few oars for the boat as Bjorn noted when he first met Floki.

Siggy, there's a lot of Lady Macbeth to her. I suspect she won't be as phased by getting her hands bloody, though.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

But is Lagertha getting away with it? Will there be a societal price to pay, with Ragnar and son having to come to the rescue? Or does she stay a free woman and keep her husband's lands...which would be very intriguing, because she could become an asset to Ragnar.

Siggy: "Can you keep a secret?"
Floki giggles then gives a 'bitch please' look: "No."
Best moment of the episode!

Or it's been a way of weakening two powerful and ambitious men who were on their way to becoming bigger threats to him. Siggy may have figured out that that has been Horrik's plan in playing them the way he has, Auslaug, too.
Good point...fits perfectly with the king's behavior in the teaser for the next episode.

Siggy continues to intrigue. I like that clever wench. :techman:
Yes, I was afraid they were watering her down...nice to see her still in good form.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

So--no one in Ragnar's party seemed to care for Athelstan except Ragnar and Bjorn. Fuck 'em. Sorry, but Floki's pissing me off. :scream: Siggy continues to intrigue. I like that clever wench. :techman:
I find it very curious that you loathe Floki so much but seem to like Siggy. Siggy is a backstabbing, manipulative, cheating, self-centered <smurf>. Floki, on the other hand, is completely honest about what kind of man he is, but at least he's dedicated to his people, his king, and especially his gods.

Of the two, I'd rather have Floki at my back any day.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

But I'd rather have Siggy on her back....

*Rimshot*

Sorry, had to be done....
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

What's so strange? I haven't seen Siggy shoot arrows into anybody while giggling uncontrollably or enjoying a rape party. She's loyal to Rollo whether or not she slept with King dumbass. It's not as if Rollo's been perfectly monogamous or celibate either. Floki's got a screw loose.

Unless you're a firm believer in the Norse gods, I wouldn't be so quick to want Floki at your back. ;) He's too fundamentalist for me.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Floki's got a screw loose.
And that's what we love about him.
But can he keep a secret?

{giggle} No. {giggle}

What so great is how much the actor can do with so little time and dialogue. Floki is awesome. Part of him, I think, is like his similar sounding namesake, Loki. Floki is a character of chaos and something of a trickster, or fool.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

But is Lagertha getting away with it? Will there be a societal price to pay, with Ragnar and son having to come to the rescue? Or does she stay a free woman and keep her husband's lands...which would be very intriguing, because she could become an asset to Ragnar.
I think she was ready to go down fighting after she stabbed her husband and was surprised when the guy with the sword chopped his head off. Looks like the Earl Asshole wasn't particularly liked by his people and someone just seized the opportunity to off him. If he has any relatives, they could try to avenge him, but the show will probably forget it just as in the case with Thyri's old husband in season 1.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

If both King Ecbert and Athelstan were at Emperor Charlemagne's court, would they not have known about the Byzantines?

While the Western Empire was long gone by this time, the Eastern Empire lived on from its seat at Constantinople - despite the reverses they had suffered by this point in time (losing Egypt and North Africa to the Arabs, for example). And the schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches was still a few centuries in the future.

Or was the political division already such that the "western" kingdoms (those recognising Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor) were doing their best to pretend that Constantonople didn't exist?
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

If both King Ecbert and Athelstan were at Emperor Charlemagne's court, would they not have known about the Byzantines?

While the Western Empire was long gone by this time, the Eastern Empire lived on from its seat at Constantinople - despite the reverses they had suffered by this point in time (losing Egypt and North Africa to the Arabs, for example). And the schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches was still a few centuries in the future.

Or was the political division already such that the "western" kingdoms (those recognising Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor) were doing their best to pretend that Constantonople didn't exist?
I think Ecbert was fishing to see how knowledgeable and appreciative Athelstan was on Classical Rome and its history in Britain and the world before revealing the work he hoped Athelstan could be a part of. Ecbert is quite right about how dangerous the knowledge could be perceived as by Church authorities (it wasn't unheard of for priests to not even be able to read) and a superstition ridden populace.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Wow, that was... painful to watch.:crazy:
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Yeah, Aella should never be happy. The blood eagle was pretty serious, too. It should be interesting to see how this vengeance on Jarl Borg plays out. Sure, expected by Horrik given the attack on his family. But was Horrik serious about helping him escape or did Ragnar and Rollo act faster. Also, it seemed Borg could have been turned into a considerable ally. Could Horrik have changed his mind when Lagertha showed up? Is a chance to get Floki building ships for him a better alternative? Who gets Borg's lands now that the old Jarl is off to Valhalla? Man, there's a lot of territory to cover in the next few episodes with a lot of folks looking at who's on whose side.

I love the drunk weapons practice. Viking parties are a hell of a time. Siggy might just Lady Macbeth her way to an early grave. I laughed at the chutzpah of Ragnar telling Bjorn which head to think with. Great show tonight.
 
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

That was fucking disturbing tonight. :wtf: Ewww...

Yeah, good old Floki is going to turn on Ragnar if a better opportunity presents itself. When ambition is god, small men can do terrible things in an effort to become bigger men.

I saw Ragnar's warning to Bjorn not to think with his dick as a sign of genuine regret. Ragnar wants his sons, but he wanted them with Lagertha. He regrets that she's out of his life--or at least not married to him anymore.

Personally, I think Horik was pretty much playing Jarl Borg. He might have considered helping him escape briefly but then thought better of it. As for Siggy, she's playing a dangerous game. I do think she loves Rollo, but she wants power, too. She'd *prefer* to be with him, but she's not going to abandon her own ambition. That doesn't make her any worse than any of the men involved, but simple fact is that Rollo has the strength and the temper to kill her if he got angry. That he didn't shows that he respects her, but he's living on a knife's edge. He could snap. He's not some 21st century renaissance man who believes in equality for all.

Athelstan, Athelstan.....what will you do when the shit hits the fan? That scene with the crow and the eye was very well done.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

That was fucking disturbing tonight. :wtf: Ewww...

Yeah, good old Floki is going to turn on Ragnar if a better opportunity presents itself. When ambition is god, small men can do terrible things in an effort to become bigger men.

I think Floki is certainly sensitive to Ragnar's growing imperious attitudes. He misses the days when they were more equals for sure, whether that is enough to turn him, we'll see. Loyalty is a big thing with him, but so is his sensitivity to the wishes of the gods. He took that return trip from England rather badly. He could see that as the gods' punishment for running out on Horrik like they did?

I saw Ragnar's warning to Bjorn not to think with his dick as a sign of genuine regret. Ragnar wants his sons, but he wanted them with Lagertha. He regrets that she's out of his life--or at least not married to him anymore.

I loved the scene on the porch where he's chatting with Auslaug and discussing Lagertha. His comment about 'It will be dark, soon' besides implying the Blood Eagle ceremony, makes me wonder if it is a foreshadowing of trouble's for Ragnar when getting back to England?

Also, the party early on when Ragnar is watching folks through the latice. That scene really counterpointed Floki's not wanting Ragnar at his wedding. Ragnar is slowly isolating himself from the folks who got him where he his. His conversation with Bjorn about trust was a further highlighting Ragnar's growing isolation.

Personally, I think Horik was pretty much playing Jarl Borg. He might have considered helping him escape briefly but then thought better of it. As for Siggy, she's playing a dangerous game. I do think she loves Rollo, but she wants power, too. She'd *prefer* to be with him, but she's not going to abandon her own ambition. That doesn't make her any worse than any of the men involved, but simple fact is that Rollo has the strength and the temper to kill her if he got angry. That he didn't shows that he respects her, but he's living on a knife's edge. He could snap. He's not some 21st century renaissance man who believes in equality for all.

I think the chances of Siggy betraying Rollo, or Ragnar, is far more likely than Floki. I can see Floki going to build boats and get out from Ragnar's growing hubris, but he wouldn't put a knife in his back. Siggy wouldn't hesitate if it advanced her interest. That would piss of Rollo, though. If he couldn't make himself fight Ragnar back at the start of the season, I don't think he'd go for treachery like that, which seems like it would be Siggy's style.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Jarl Borg's lands. Borg thought of giving Ragnar's lands to Rollo when talking to Horrik. I wonder if Horrik at Siggy's instigating or on his own might think of setting up Rollo as the Jarl there?

Athelstan, Athelstan.....what will you do when the shit hits the fan? That scene with the crow and the eye was very well done.
This could turn out to be amazing. Ragnar's constant concern for Athelstan, I wonder if Ragnar's missing Athelstan is because he is one of the few folks left that he, Ragnar, fully trusts? The scene with the crow was great, Odin's eye on him, Athelstan is searching for meaning. I wonder if he'll come across Cicero' 'The Nature of the Gods' or Lucretius's 'On the Nature of Things'? Athelstan could be the real knife in the gut to Ragnar, or the real danger to Ecbert and Aella's plans, or just the greatest wild card in the show. The 'God Save England' scene was interesting for how the actor played his joining in. He left the feeling of Athelstan's commitment to this life in Britain still very murky. I wish we'd spent less time with Borg in prison and more on Athelstan, or we just had a longer show.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Ragnar wasn't just isolating himself, but paying attention to what was really going on in the hall...maybe getting a little paranoid? And if Floki threatens to turn against him, who can blame him?

Yeah, I thought I'd missed something when Horrik never followed up on his promise to free Borg....Was that just his way of messing with him? The only reason that Borg became Ragnar's enemy is because Horrik wouldn't raid with Borg.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

The new earl who allied with Ragnar looks fabulous. Someone needs to find a few screen caps.
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Oh yeah, as soon as the mystery earl was brought up, I saw who it was a mile away....
 
Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

I got the sense that Siggy knew that Ragnar was watching her through the latice. She seemed to look right at him. For a moment I was wondering if she was being a double agent for Ragnar. I'll have to watch the scene again. Perhaps I misinterpreted.

Yes, Athelstan is the wildcard. To the hundredth power he is. Also, I'm assuming the fourth son Aslaug is carrying is Ivar the Boneless. Some historians suggest that Ivar was actually deformed in some way; all suggest that he was vicious. We shall see. Bjorn is almost too good to be true. He seems more Lagertha's son than Ragnar's. I think the actor is adorable, but almost too good to be true as a character, you know?
 
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